Playing "outside" - jazz guitar trends

[Vladan]

...when I noticed that my friend slightly twisted neck and head to one side (can not remember if the left or right) exactly when Pat played the "outside" phrase and returned to its normal position when the notes went back to sound "inside". Totally unwitting.
My colleague was not and still is not a musician, but had a great taste for music choices.
Moral of the story: the "outside" it messes with our emotions in a way that can reach out our physical body! I never forgot this episode.

If it's possible to make such music that'l make you tap your foot, it must be possible to make such music that'll make you kill your neighbour.

(Roughly parphrased sentence, I've heard was attributed to F. Zappa)

[Spirit59]

If it's possible to make such music that'l make you tap your foot, it must be possible to make such music that'll make you kill your neighbour.

(Roughly parphrased sentence, I've heard was attributed to F. Zappa)

I'd be interested in figuring out how to make some music that would cause some of my neighbors to move...

[Staggs89]

Playing "outside" used to mean playing melody or harmonies which were superimposed on top of the prevailing harmonies
which were considered standard for that tune. Usually this meant side-slipping into Major triads or outlining harmonies
which were foreign to the present harmony. If you are in the "white keys" C,G,D, or E, play chords from the Flat or "Black key"
side of the spectrum Eb,Gb,Ab, Db, etc. Experiment, pick & choose your colors, and slide back in whenever.

[jayx123]

serious side stepping

[dasein]

I have nothing to add to this other than a quick story....

Years ago a friend and I got totally trashed one nite, came home and passed out. He had to get up early to go to class at Berklee...so as a joke, knowing the condition I was in decided to put on a Cecil Taylor Solo CD. Looped no less.....whether or not that is considered "out", I can't say...but it can be a tad bit harsh at times.

Anyway...I was so hungover I couldn't muster up enough energy to even to turn it off....

The first pass was pure agony....my head was screaming with pain... but by the 5th or 6th time, I was really enjoying it, and when he would play "more inside" stuff momentarily....it just sounded well....average...making me really anticipate the more atonal stuff....


and amazingly my hangover was gone by the 10th listen...

i'm sorry, but you must have missed the memo that subjective enjoyment is completely immune to any form of criticism, analysis, or reflection. by having your taste evolve, you have engaged in self-criticism, and should apologize to yourself for taking this too seriously.

please meditate further on ice cream and oral sex. i have picked out some appropriate music to aid you in this endeavor:

[Insufferable_Rhythm]

I like Peter Bernstein's playing but I think he often walks that line veering towards noodling. Maybe I'm just a more lyrical player.

Not useful at all, but: Mind blown.

[emiliocantini]

serious side stepping

Really it is outside almost all the time! But isnt fantastic? I think when is searching for something new (especially in an old song like Blue Bossa) the artist have to try different things, being one of them the forced side stepping or forced ouside itself. Certainly from this forced attitude, soon or later during the solo, will come spontaneously the creativity.

[AmundLauritzen]

Brecker played with so much balls and momentum he could assemble any collection of notes into a line.

A lot is in the phrasing, the articulation.

A harmonically strong line, perfectly outlining the changes like we find in bebop can be very powerful.

Take away one element, the others must compensate. For outside lines, the conviction has to be there, the momentum, the phrasing, rhythm, articulation, tone, explosiveness.

Check this out:

Listen to Mike start his solo on the b9. He was a bad cat! Listen also how outside most of his solo is. But his timing is perfect, articulation spot on, rhythm, phrasing. As I said, take out one element and the rest has to compensate.

For Mike that was no problem because he was rock solid in all aspects, so when he did go outside the changes it sounded right. It was no awkward transition, but a perfect flow because unlike most others, there was no hesitation. People are gripped with fear when venturing outside when they're not relying on their strongest muscle memory.
I don't know if Mike was fearless, but his perfect timing certainly indicates at least it didn't get to him much.

Of course you can get into intervallic ways to create integrity, like multi-tonic systems and the Triadic Chromatic Approach. But really, those are useless if the other elements are not in place to begin with. It's icing on the cake.

[docbop]

Brecker played with so much balls and momentum he could assemble any collection of notes into a line.

A lot is in the phrasing, the articulation.

A harmonically strong line, perfectly outlining the changes like we find in bebop can be very powerful.

Take away one element, the others must compensate. For outside lines, the conviction has to be there, the momentum, the phrasing, rhythm, articulation, tone, explosiveness.

Check this out:

Listen to Mike start his solo on the b9. He was a bad cat! Listen also how outside most of his solo is. But his timing is perfect, articulation spot on, rhythm, phrasing. As I said, take out one element and the rest has to compensate.

For Mike that was no problem because he was rock solid in all aspects, so when he did go outside the changes it sounded right. It was no awkward transition, but a perfect flow because unlike most others, there was no hesitation. People are gripped with fear when venturing outside when they're not relying on their strongest muscle memory.
I don't know if Mike was fearless, but his perfect timing certainly indicates at least it didn't get to him much.

Of course you can get into intervallic ways to create integrity, like multi-tonic systems and the Triadic Chromatic Approach. But really, those are useless if the other elements are not in place to begin with. It's icing on the cake.

Also helps to have a great bass player like NHOP laying down a foundation behind you. I love Brecker always have, but to live on the edge you need quality musicians behind you for support.

[Vihar]

Certainly from this forced attitude, soon or later during the solo, will come spontaneously the creativity.

Interesting. I would consider it a rather terrible situation when creativity is not already there to begin with.