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Hi Guys
I've been playing jazz guitar for a month or 2 now - I've been learning tunes (Autumn Leaves, Blue Bossa, Fly Me..)
I've been advised that I need to start looking at building up something called a "Licktionary" as this will help me with in my struggles with Improv.
I've poked around on the web and there seems to be an endless supply of Jazz Licks "Every jazzer should know". The mass of information that is out there has got my head spinning..
Where do I start with all these licks?
What licks did some of you guys start with that really got you going?
What is a good web resource for finding licks that I REALLY SHOULD KNOW as a jazzer. ?
Is it wrong to take a lick I find online and incorporate it into my own playing?
Is working with licks generally a good thing that produces results in your own playing?
I know it's a bunch of questions and any help would be great..
ThanksLast edited by JazzGuitar; 06-06-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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06-06-2013 10:38 AM
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You can NEVER have enough licks...
I have many spiral bound manuscript books full of them...in all keys...
Mel Bay has a few good books on riffs..runs..licks..& arpeggios....does not matter for what instrument....I have one by Ernie Berle..written for saxophone...great book for a beginner....well laid out...
also look up Bob Kellers Jazz Page....Bert Ligons site (U Of South Carolina)..and Jamie Aebersolds site...
the use of rhythm to alter those written patterns is a good way to make them more jazzy sounding...it's not the notes but how they are played...ie...rhythm .. articulation ..chromatics...
time on the instrument..
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My suggestion is that rather than learning a bunch of licks and trying to figure out what to do with them, pick someone who's playing intrigues you, pick a simple tune that you know that that player has done a version of, and listen to it over and over; transcribe bits that you like, try to figure out what is being played and in what part of the tune, and how it fits the tune, then learn to play it from that recording so inflections, timbre, articulations, etc. are part of your learning and not just the bare notes, then turn it upside down, inside out, forwards & backwards and make it your own. Just my un-expert suggestion.
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Starting with the last question. Every accomplished jazz improviser has spent a great amount of time working on developing their vocabulary through the use of licks or phrases. At least that's the sense I get from speaking with them, interviews, and posts here and elsewhere. But also, there are many other aspects to improvisation that are important to work on. And some of them you need to have under your fingers first, before you dive into vocabulary...
Originally Posted by JazzGuitar
I have found that the important question is really: How do I study these licks? You need to have a system... Any system that works for you, but you need A system. a measured process to discover, learn, apply, etc, these musical phrases and turn them into your own vocabulary.
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About "licks."
What are the best licks?--The ones you like!
Never treat a lick like it's set in stone...it's a piece of info...play it upside down, backwards, all keys...different octaves...make it yours.
Writing em down is good, but they'll have to be in the brain catalog if you're ever going to use them effictively.
If you find yourself in a playing situation saying to yourself "Ima play this lick next time that chord comes up" You're dead in the water.
You really know a lick when it comes out in the heat of the moment without any planning.
The system is SONGS. Knowledge without application is useless.
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I am in general agreement with everything you say here. But I would like to add a little context to the following sentence: Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
As jazz musicians, we have to be one half scientist/mathematician, one half musician/performer. You have to understand the theory, the possibilities, the horizons that are presented to you by the limitless world of music. I tend to identify this aspect as the "Advancing Guitarist" approach (as exemplified by goodrick's book by the same name), all about mathematical possibilities, combinations, inversions, etc... BUT you need to understand that the only reason you need to approach music in this way, is so you can let go of this "scientific" approach once you are making music with friends, or by your self, or in front of an audience.The system is SONGS. Knowledge without application is useless.
In a sense, the two aspects meet in the part where you develop your repertoire. It's where the limitless possibilities solidify into THIS TUNE, where you choose specific things to play, think, interpret, in an attempt to build a performance out of all this math...
In other words, yes, the ultimate goal of the system, any system, is to play songs. But I wouldn't say "the system IS songs".
(All of this, of course, in the interest of sparking a healthy dialogue on the subject. These are just my opinions after only a handful of years of studying jazz guitar).
K
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I guess my take on it is that in an artform like jazz, you don't really know anything until you can use it, and songs are the vehicle for that.
So what I'm saying is you have to be working on tunes always...you learn that new lick--apply it to whatever tune you're working on at the moment, or one you already know...too many folks think there's prerequisites to playing music.
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Of course, no one would argue with that. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I just felt that, you know the last sentence (The system is SONGS. Knowledge without application is useless) was a very complex concept packed into a single sentence. And that, without a little unpacking, might confuse someone who is just starting out.
Sometimes, as adults, we totally forget what it's like to be kids, you know? I'm still a Jazz improv "teenager", so I still remember the sense of awe, excitement, confusion or bewilderment when faced with the task of "learning to improvise jazz" as a beginner. I also remember not knowing enough to know whats important (to me anyway), and thinking every single sentence like that was like the final, ultimate key needed to unravel this mystery. This type of thinking (on my part) led me down many rat holes.
So, anyway, yes... Learn lots of licks! I am currently handling my first batch of 45 different licks, with a view to expanding that to at least 100 within a year, and beyond that into many hundreds, as I continue to study for the rest of my life.
K
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I agree totally...I might have been dipping into the "soundbyte wisdom" I hate so much.
But I also think jazz is complex--but beginners usually make it out to be a lot more complex than they need to off the bat. You can do a lot with some very basic stuff...if you know it really well.
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Very nice comments on this topic.
I'm not an expert player, but when I started to work more on tunes than studying the theory my skills started to develop much faster.
What I do today is learn a scale, arpeggio whatever applying it to music.
A very nice way to do this is on I VI II V 12-bar blues.Last edited by clebergf; 06-10-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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Long before the web and personal computers existed, I played, listened and learned from the few Jazz guitarist albums I had. I would learn songs and licks by ear by listening over and over again, stopping the record and attempting to play a lick that I really liked.
I suggest a similar approach using the tech tools available today. First, there should be a lick that you love and feel compelled to learn. So listen to your favorite guitarists for licks that you like and that aren't beyond your reach to figure out.
I would find it overwhelming and confusing to sift thru the licks that have been posted on websites. But the point is to learn what you really like, not what anyone else suggests.
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Thanks Guys
This is a lot of info take in, I'll extrapolate what I think is important for me.
>> Learn licks that I enjoy listening to, not what is being suggested
>> Learn songs
>> Apply the lick to tunes that I like
>> Don't plan to incorporate the lick "when this chord comes up" - It just comes in the heat of the moment
>> Learn to analyze the lick, understand what is being played.
Hopefully, I'm on my way.......
Regards
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I'm a relative noob to jazz guitar improv and only recently started to transcribe stuff.
What I have started to do is to try and build up an arsenal of licks or outlines that can be played over progressions that occur repeatedly in jazz tunes, e.g. ii V.
So as well as transcribing things like whole bebop heads, I've started to extract the bits that I like into reusable chunks which can then be a) developed / personalised, b) practiced in all 12 keys and c) applied to improv in other songs.
My starting point for this was the 3 basic ii V I outlines (actually 6 if you count the minor and major versions) from Bert Ligons Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony book.
On top of this, I've been trying to solo over tunes by messing with / embellishing the head melody.Last edited by eazilyled; 06-07-2013 at 07:12 AM.
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This book is about developing vocabulary and a big part of that is licks. One of my favorite books...
Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing: A Comprehensive Improvisation Method - Joe Elliott - Google Books
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Gosh, you're gonna dislike this, but I'm taking the contrarian position out of conviction and to open the debate. Licks are useless in my humble opinion, even in a style like blues guitar. And memorizing them is a waste of time.
The issue is learning songs, as Joe Pass suggested so often. What lick would you play over Stardust? The Shadow of Your Smile? Over the Rainbow? Misty? These songs have a thing called melodies. Can you play the melody? If yes, can you improvise a bit? That is the question. Now if you are playing some modal vamp, then you can cycle through some mental hard drive of "canned licks" - just open the can, and reheat. But I sincerely doubt that real jazz guitarists have a library of licks.
That is not to say that they don't have a style or a voice or a tone, but what the great ones have is an individual identity. Bill Frisell. Joe Pass. Martin Taylor. Louis Stewart. Lenny Breau. They can all play the same song, but they put their individual mark on that song. And that, to coin a phrase, is where the money is.
Transcribing a song, playing along to artists' records, studying their technique - all good. But licks? Stick to ice cream....
Don't get upset with me for this now.
Jay
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I don't see why anyone would get upset. I do want to point out, though, that no one in this thread is saying that "playing canned licks is improvising". Originally Posted by targuit
Gosh, you're gonna dislike this, but I'm taking the contrarian position out of conviction and to open the debate. Licks are useless in my humble opinion, even in a style like blues guitar. And memorizing them is a waste of time.
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Transcribing a song, playing along to artists' records, studying their technique - all good. But licks? Stick to ice cream....
Don't get upset with me for this now. Jay
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The best licks collection I've found is from saxophonist Steve Neff at neffmusic.com, he has a series of books including ones called "Best major ii V i licks" and "Best Minor ii V i licks." Also David Baker's How To Play Bebop series has hundreds of licks over all of the common chord progressions.
However, at a beginner stage the best thing to do is learn solos rather than isolated licks. Learning a solo you will see them in context rather than as isolated phrases, and you will see how the masters develop choruses and most importantly, by playing along with the recording and locking in with the player you will develop your rhythm and swing feel.
I don't think it's a problem using written transcriptions at first since it takes a long time for beginners to transcribe them yourself. As long as you're working on it and other ear training aspects (i.e. singing intervals) it will come with time, and eventually it will just be faster to transcribe yourself than to use a written version.
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Useless and a waste of time? I wouldn't go that far. I'll agree that learning songs would be more valuable in most cases. But being an Emily Remler fan, I have to go along with a few things she said.
Have licks to fall back on when your creativity isn't coming out that good.
Don't transcribe entire solos, but pick out the phrases (licks?) that you really like.
Do this with different guitarists you like, not just your favorite.
When you learn a lick or phrase, repeat it over and over different ways to make it your own. Play it backwards, mix it up etc.
I'll have to admit I've never heard the term "lictionary" and I don't like the sound of it. But human musicians have limitations. I hear all the greats repeat licks eventually.
I like the Matt Warnock link in post 14. What an in depth way of working on "licks".
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I suppose the term 'lick' can be seen negatively, as it almost implies that it is something that can be used freely without understanding how each note functions against the underlying harmony. I prefer 'outlines' or 'vocabulary' for this reason.
I guess this thread is a discussion about improvising over a given harmony, and another approach would be to improvise off the melody using simple embellishments or as a springboard to inspire you and create your own version of the melody. I imagine different players have a preference in terms of improvising using melody vs harmony. My personal goal is to be able to do both.Last edited by eazilyled; 06-11-2013 at 03:06 AM.
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Perhaps we need to all settle on using the term "vocabulary" exclusively, and leave the term "lick" as a forbidden 4 letter word... Originally Posted by eazilyled
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I think this article may be interesting:
Jazz licks & jazz language in jazz improvisation practice | jazzadvice.com
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I highly recommend the Jazz Lines in the Style of Joe Pass book by Corey Christiansen! Great book of lines laid out for chord types and progressions. There are other books in this series for Wes, Grant Green, Coltrane, etc.
I feel like learning licks is almost like learning to speak. A child will learn short phrases before putting together full sentences. Similar can be said abiut jazz lines/licks. Copy some short licks, build up longer ones, and ultimately get your own lines flowing.Last edited by monkmiles; 06-17-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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To me, having licks at your disposal is good when there's a vamp situation. There's a couple of songs on the "Body Talk" album where Benson just riffs away during two chord vamps.
Funky Jazz was the rage in the mid '70s and getting funky on just one or two chords was a lot of fun. Sometimes a vamp can be used as a break from the repetitious chord progressions of the song being played.
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I second the joe pass lines book recommendation. Also from the same series, Jazz lines in the style of charlie parker is excellent as well. I have worked only a handful of lines from both books into my playing, but that's enough to have made them worth it. A small bit here, a longer phrase there, sometimes combined with other stuff from solo transcriptions, and I have cool vocabulary that is MINE. Originally Posted by hallpass
K
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Originally Posted by JazzGuitar
"Where do I start with all these licks?"
I recommend the book "Bebop licks for guitar" by Les Wise. It contains pure bebop vocab. The phrases are short and quick to learn, and there are many different chord changes covered in the book. If you have a problem are in a tune, the book is a great reference to grab a phrase for that area so that you have something to play. In the long run, the more licks you gather for the problem areas, the more fluidity you will develop and soon you'll be improvising all through the tune. But it starts with baby steps. I also recommend Pat Martinos book "Linear Expressions". It contains lots of vocabulary.
There are tons of lick videos on YouTube too. And those are all free!
"What licks did some of you guys start with that really got you going?"
I practiced a lot of II-V licks. Then I practiced Imaj vocabulary. Then I put it together to form II-V-I's, and I also learned complete II-V-I licks. Improvising over II-V's is a good place to start to train your ear. Learn "So What" or "Impressions", because those tunes not only have long stretches of the same chord, but it also forces you to learn the lick in two keys. Although those tunes are based on Dorian II-chords, you can always play a II-V on a II chord. So you could think of the Dm7 as Dm7 to G7 and use appropriate II-V vocab. This is a fun and easy place to start!
"What is a good web resource for finding licks that I REALLY SHOULD KNOW as a jazzer. ?"
I learned a great deal from Mark Elfs site. His method is all about vocabulary and it will turn you into a pure bebop player. Highly recommended.
"Is it wrong to take a lick I find online and incorporate it into my own playing?"
Absolutely not. Many beginning jazz players will react negatively when told to learn licks or to transcribe. They will argue that they want to find their own voice. Truth is, your own voice will sound retarded if you don't learn the proper language. It's like someone trying to speak their native language in a different country. The communication just won't happen. The key is to not just loot the same store: transcribe a wide variety of players. Radically different ones from different eras of the jazz history. Transcribe players of different instruments. When you have done this enough, you will have eureka moments from what you know and start to come up with new and original phrases from it. That's when you truly develop your own voice. Don't let the "don't transcribe" guys fool you. Few of those guys can hang. Ask any accomplished player and he'll tell you he spent at least some time imitating others.
"Is working with licks generally a good thing that produces results in your own playing?"
Yes. Learning a lick, or a whole solo gives you knowledge of many areas of playing at once. Imagine working separately on scales for instance. In that scale, there is no vocabulary alone. To make good lines, you also have to work on other things like phrasing and articulation. Of course, everybody should work on all those areas. But the good thing about licks is that they are musical examples of all these components in action. You simply learn by assimilation as you'd learn a language. Learning all the aspects separately can make your playing sound contrived in comparison to the intuitive way to learn music through imitation.
I hope this helps answer your question.
In my opinion, learning licks and transcribing is an essential component of a practice regimen. But it is only one aspect and it is not the be all end all approach to playing jazz.
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