An Interesting Perspective From A Pat Metheny Interview

**Flyin' Brian** · 04-26-2013, 07:43 PM

"You know... the frustrating thing is every now and then you actually do get it right. It might be every 4th night or every 10th night or every six months or once a year but every now and then you do it.

And that makes it worse almost because it's like you KNOW you can do it, you KNOW that you're not crazy. It's there. There is a truth there that can be found.

And I think each year that you play you become more consistent or you get closer to that truth that you establish in your mind. But as you get closer to it, it also moves at the same rate higher away from where you are."

**fumblefingers** · 04-26-2013, 09:09 PM

improv is a mofo.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-26-2013, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian

"You know... the frustrating thing is every now and then you actually do get it right. It might be every 4th night or every 10th night or every six months or once a year but every now and then you do it.

And that makes it worse almost because it's like you KNOW you can do it, you KNOW that you're not crazy. It's there. There is a truth there that can be found.

And I think each year that you play you become more consistent or you get closer to that truth that you establish in your mind. But as you get closer to it, it also moves at the same rate higher away from where you are."

Pat's a wise man...the better I get, the further away "good" seems.

**ecj** · 04-27-2013, 12:55 AM

It's always weird to me to hear someone as phenomenal as Metheny talk like this. What must the music in his head be like if he's not nailing it now? I hope he gets there just so I can get a glimpse.

**Nabil B** · 04-27-2013, 03:53 AM

I already read in another interview that the music he was playing was not the same he was hearing in his mind. That puzzled me, because if a master like him can't do it, then what are we mortals going to do ? In retrospect, I think he might have been talking about something more profound than just playing the melodies you hear in your mind, music represents all his life and I can only imagine how strongly he relates to it.

**Tom Karol** · 04-27-2013, 08:37 AM

Audience member: "That was a great solo you played!"
T. Monk: "Thanks, but you should have heard what I was trying to play!"

**Gertrude Moser** · 04-27-2013, 09:08 AM

I remember reading a Jim Hall interview many years ago and he said (paraphrasing)..."some days I think...what am I doing, I can't play this thing. But I keep trying" That was a huge wtf moment for me. Think of a marathon runner who runs 2:09 and wins races. Then when they post a 2:16 and finish in 12 place, they had a shit day while still outrunning 99.9% of the field.

**Flyin' Brian** · 04-27-2013, 10:52 AM

I think that when Pat says "the truth that you establish in your mind", it kind of saves us mortals. I remember when I was a 10 year old and my challenge was to play Rebel Rouser. That's the bar that keeps moving ... one day it's Rebel Rouser, another it's All The Things You Are, the next it's soloing competently in an odd meter, and hopefully it keeps moving up. For some it doesn't. They simply get to the point where they're happy and content with what they do.

And there's nothing wrong with that because wouldn't everyone say that ultimately, the direction and length of the journey is what keeps us happy with our music? For me it's about learning one new thing a day, whether it's a song, a chord voicing, a new technique or completing a reading exercise. Any one of those makes the day a triumph for me.

**MattC** · 04-27-2013, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian

I think that when Pat says "the truth that you establish in your mind", it kind of saves us mortals. I remember when I was a 10 year old and my challenge was to play Rebel Rouser. That's the bar that keeps moving ... one day it's Rebel Rouser, another it's All The Things You Are, the next it's soloing competently in an odd meter, and hopefully it keeps moving up. For some it doesn't. They simply get to the point where they're happy and content with what they do.

And there's nothing wrong with that because wouldn't everyone say that ultimately, the direction and length of the journey is what keeps us happy with our music? For me it's about learning one new thing a day, whether it's a song, a chord voicing, a new technique or completing a reading exercise. Any one of those makes the day a triumph for me.

Nice words. I like to continually challenge myself too, but I agree that it's equally valid to not always do new stuff. That's a challenge in it's own way to-to continually create emotional energy with the same basic materials. Guys like John Lee Hooker who basically did the same thing for decades certainly have their own truth.

But with jazz "masters" it seems common to be dissatisfied with one's own playing. Sonny Rollins comes to mind. In Ira Gitler's Tenor Madness liner notes, he says Philly Joe told him that during the whole session Sonny kept shaking his head and saying "Nothings happening." The guy is making an album everyone else will consider a classic and playing solos that will be transcribed and studied by countless players, and he thinks "nothings happening." Hilarious. Supposedly Sonny has almost always felt like this about his own playing. Seldom satisfied, always searching, reaching for something.

Matt

**Stevebol** · 04-27-2013, 12:08 PM

Humility is the most important thing. No matter how well you play a solo you shouldn't get big-headed. There's always another song and another day.

**Flyin' Brian** · 04-27-2013, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

Humility is the most important thing. No matter how well you play a solo you shouldn't get big-headed. There's always another song and another day.

And a solo in which you WILL fall on your face.

**pkirk** · 04-28-2013, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

Audience member: "That was a great solo you played!"
T. Monk: "Thanks, but you should have heard what I was trying to play!"

a bass player I play with frequently tells me "I like what you're trying to do"......

**Rustic** · 05-03-2013, 02:09 PM

Since our ears grow faster and easier than our playing I think it's the nature of the beast to almost never quite get to what you hear. I'm with Brian, the joy is in the process, the discovery.

**Frank67** · 05-03-2013, 07:30 PM

Really wise and humble words! Thanks for sharing. Lately I've been listening quite a bit to Mark Knopfler and David Gilmore and I find it so striking how these guys manage to say so much with just a few notes. Watching them play it feels like it must come from deep inside them and they seem to be so at home with their music. It never sounds or feels like a technical exercise. In Jazz it is Wes Montgomery who manages, like no other, to give me this impression ... it must feel truly great to be able to do this.

**JakeAcci** · 05-03-2013, 08:07 PM

Great quotation and points all around.

I have a lot to say in agreement.

A few things to try to pull in the other direction:

If we don't say "good enough" sometimes then we might never perform or record.

Also, I've learned that its important to acknowledge and value the audience's response. For example, if I play a show and I feel like crap and think I sounded like crap, and somebody comes up to me and says they really dug it and it was an enjoyable performance for them in some way, I'm not going to say (or even think) "you don't know what the F you're talking about, that sucked and it will always suck." I'm going to be glad that what I did meant something positive to somebody else, even if I feel that it was total rubbish.

NONE of this is in disagreement with the Pat quotation or anything else anybody has said, just thought I'd throw out some additional perspectives.

Honestly I feel like I could write a novel about everything I don't like about my playing. The biggest challenge for me lately has been trying to let go and make music anyway. I sat down a few months and tried to come up with a list of everything I liked about my guitar playing - I couldn't think of one thing! Really not one thing. Wow.

A lot of Dunning Kruger in this. We're all skilled, maybe not all virtuoso pros or anything but we can all play quite a bit of music on the guitar. Think about all the total hacks who don't know anything but think they're the shit...

**Agate** · 07-04-2013, 06:32 PM

Reminds me of something Benny Golson said at a show I saw last year, that if he ever heard a musician happy with where they were at, he'd back away slowly, because those who think they've "arrived" aren't the kind of people he wants to associate with.

**Petimar** · 07-04-2013, 09:47 PM

There is a cool YouTube video interviewing Orrin Keepnews on the making Wes' "Incredible Jazz Guitar" album. His notes from the session indicated Wes didn't like any of his solos. One tune he says "my notes say WM didn't like his solo - but everybody else did".

**targuit** · 07-04-2013, 10:51 PM

I've always been a pretty big fan of Pat Metheny's playing, including seeing him perform once with Joni Mitchell and Jaco Pastorius and with the PM Group a few times. That interview is from one of his performance VHS videos of one of his great CDs - my VHS player has been busted for some time, so I don't get to see the video any more. But it was a beautifully made video.

I think most of us have an idea of what he is saying. That once in while you have a moment of grace where everything just flows. It is the addictive thing that keeps us playing. Music really is like falling in love - it's an addiction.

That sense of pursuing the elusive truth is common to so many jazz greats. I just found a video of the giant Bill Evans interviewed on an old TV show where a musician interviewer is questioning him about his music and improvisation. To illustrate his point Evans sits down at the piano and tries to show his friend what he means about seeking the truth in the music. He just rips off these gorgeous lines and different approaches to the same tune. If anyone would like, I'll link the video. It is so humbling.