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Great job Alsoran. I also like the tone of your guitar.
I got to get me this book.
edh
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07-25-2015 10:13 PM
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Thanks, edh.
Originally Posted by edh
Of course, the real goal is to internalize this stuff. Unfortunately for me, I have always played the Minor Blues but if you are a fan of Major Blues, which I have learned to appreciate through this thread, then by all means get the book and consider using it to work your way through his Herb's series. "All the Shapes You Are" teaches improvising over the song "All the Things You Are." I hope to get their one day.
I am still working through the licks in the book The Blues Scales: Essential Tools for Improvisation" (guitar version), which uses a lot of minor and major blues scales, but does add other chord tones such as ninths.
Oh, and the guitar was a modified Epi Sheraton II played directly into my old Boss MicroBR using the "Jazz Box" effect.
Thanks for the encouragement.
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Barry Originally Posted by barrymclark
Could you elaborate on that?
When you say play the chord do you mean play the chord shape?
Chromatic run from where to where?
I had a look at this book a while ago but like with everything I didn't stick with it. I never thoroughly investigated the shapes. I probably should have done...
Frank
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Is anyone else working on the third solo, the slow blues, "Bay Blues"? I really like that one but it is the toughest because of the rhythmic diversity of the lines. Great stuff, though.
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Yes. The chord shape. At the beginning of the book, it will take a chord shape and then show some scales to associate with it. In the case of the Cmaj, there are arpeggios and a chromatic scale. I play them as shown in the book. Originally Posted by fm42
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I just started this as I wanted to combine it as a Bb blues with the way I play the first example in the book. And it caught my ear too, sounds great. I have a question on fingering. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
In last bar of the opening sequence on p 30 (Bb7 before going to the Eb7 on next page), the bar opens with the end of a run in the 6th position from pervious bar, with the first finger hitting 6th fret of the D string (Ab) then immediately switches to a three finger grip to slide up. Fingering shows this as a fast switch from the 1st finger on the 6th fret of D string to the 3rd finger, so that the 1st finger is freed up for the Bb on the 1st string at the end of the slide. I get that I need my first finger free for this but am finding that transition from 1st to 3rd finger for the slide very clunky. Am thinking it might be better to land on the Ab at the end of the last run with my 3rd finger so as to be ready for a smooth slide up. But since I assume Herb is being specific with the fingering for a purpose, I suppose I can stick with it and hope it gets better and can be useful in other contexts. That, or the fingering is just suggestive (or wrong!). Anyone else figure this run out?
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I took out the book to look at this, then picked up my guitar to play it. I realized I don't follow the book's fingering. I play that Bb7 (the Ab and D notes on the D and G strings) with my first and second finger. I tried fingering it with my first and third finger but didn't like it at all. I would never play it like that. (Unless I was having to do something else with my second finger.) Here, my third finger is free when I fret those notes, so making the bar with the third finger on beat two of measure 5 is no problem at all. I think it's just a typo. Originally Posted by odel
Notice the pick-up bar of the piece, a fretting of G (fifth fret D string) and C# (sixth fret G string) and the fingering given is 3 (for the G) and 2 (for the C#). That's just wrong. (Is it even possible?) If you look at the second beat of the first bar, you'll see the same two notes fretted with the second and third finger (-with the first finger playing the root.) Either you finger the b7 with the index and play the 3rd with the second finger, or finger the b7 with the second finger and the 3rd with the third finger. Whichever is more convenient at the time.
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Mark
think I am talking about the three note chord just before this, last bar on p30 - that three note (Ab,C,F) sliding up a couple of frets (to Bb, D,G) - shows as fingered with fingers 3,2,4, bottom to top, just after landing on the Ab with the first finger at the start of the bar. Make sense?
thanks
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I see what you mean, but to be honest, I never paid attention to those fingering indications. (At other places, yes, just not there.) I get the point of using 3,2,4 to have finger 1 free for the note on the high E string. Originally Posted by odel
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Just stumbled onto this thread today. I'd like to make it official : "Body and Soul" has got to be amongst the top 4 or 5 all time tunes for jazz. Aside from the shear beauty of the piece itself, the harmonic language offered in this song is a bed of ultra great improvising territory for the whole jazz community, on par with "All the Things You Are" "I've Got Rhythm" (rhythm changes) and "Honeysuckle Rose". Yes there are probably 37 more. But in a stockhold of what must be 13,000 other tunes, Among 37 is a high honor. The way these two gents go to town on this exemplifies my claim. This is real jazz !!
Eternal, thanks for the memories, to these two masters of modern jazz guitar playing.........MarkLast edited by MarkInLA; 02-08-2016 at 08:25 PM.
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"Is there anybody out there?"
This thread has been dormant nearly all year. I take all blame for that. The subject matter---Herb's book "Swing Blues"---is great but this group is not really flourishing. I'll take the blame for that too.
But a new year looms and it could be the right time to make more of this material.
Who's with me?
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It's tempting!
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Hello Mark. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
When I ruefully take a look the wreckage that is my Jazz Guitar efforts strewn across the various threads, I can't help but look in the mirror and shake my head. This is one of those threads that testifies to my inability to stick to one course and makes me question whether or not at my core, there is some flakiness.
So, when it comes to my Jazz Blues pursuits, I think I am going to stick with my Richie Zellon and my Fareed Haque studies. They seem to be able to penetrate the veil of forgetfulness that exists in my mind.
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I resemble that remark! God knows I've gone in about as many directions as I could discern. This one suits me more than most, and I've made a bit of headway. If you're making progress with Richie's course, be grateful. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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That is hilarious and sounds like me!!! Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Maybe I can try? I will see about getting the books. I'm interested in exploring a "shape" system more formally as that's where my natural inclinations lean. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Herb was all about a shape system. Maybe your library can get you a copy (via inter-library loan) so you can see what it's about before buying it. Originally Posted by pants
It's really a simple system but what Herb gets out of it is deeply appealing.
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Sorry if this was discussed before, but what do you think an improviser will be able to do as a result of effectively completing this book? My elusive goal has been to improvise in a Charlie Christian (not bepop) kind of way over standards like "Misty," "Over the Rainbow," "Satin Doll," etc. So as a result of using this book (and not necessarily Herb's other two), do you think I'd come closer to reaching my goal, or do you see a completion of this book leading to a more specific outcome? Thanks
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Well, if you want to play over standards in this style and you only want to use one book, Herb's "All the Shapes You Are" would be a better choice. It's based on the changes of "All the Things You Are." It includes a lot of lines over each chord in the progression as well as three full solo choruses. "Swing Blues" is all over the blues progression, and "Rhythm Shapes" is all over rhythm changes. There is overlap---bluesy lines can sound good over rhythm changes and standards, and lines that fit over rhythm changes can fit over standards too---but "All the Shapes" deals with all the chord types you need to play many, many standards. Originally Posted by angelpa
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I haven't see his books, but I might be tempted to invest in a copy if this thread heats up.
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Here they are, all moderately priced. (Each comes with a CD of Herb playing the lines / solos from the book. One weakness is that they CDs don't include play-along tracks. They would be a big help.) Originally Posted by KirkP
Although the material is first-rate, I can understand why a study group based on them never got much traction: the lines are good but there is not a lot to say about them. Herb doesn't get into much theory, so there's not a lot to discuss. But maybe in the new year the group shall take new life. Hope so!
The Herb Ellis Jazz Guitar Method: Swing Blues, Book & CD: Herb Ellis, Terry Holmes: 9781576233436: Amazon.com: Books
The Herb Ellis Jazz Guitar Method: Rhythm Shapes (Book & CD): Herb Ellis, Terry Holmes: 0029156204551: Amazon.com: Books
The Herb Ellis Jazz Guitar Method: All the Shapes You Are, Book & CD: Herb Ellis, Terry Holmes: 9781576233429: Amazon.com: Books
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O.K. Mark, I have made a commitment to this thread. What book will you be using here?
Give me your best recommendation?
P.S. thought about getting the "All The Shapes You Are" book.
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I commit to trying to commit. The new year promises to be a bit crazy for me, but I'm sure I'll find time for some fairly regular playing.
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Well, the thread is about the "Swing Blues" book but really, anything of Herb's would be fine. (I could re-name the thread if that became an issue for someone.) Originally Posted by edh
O.K. Mark, I have made a commitment to this thread. What book will you be using here?
Give me your best recommendation?
P.S. thought about getting the "All The Shapes You Are" book.
Anything that gets us playing and sharing should be good.
Just changed the name of this thread to "Herb Ellis Study Group: Shape System."Last edited by MarkRhodes; 12-11-2016 at 10:52 AM.
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OK, I have the Swing Blues book and started getting shape 1 under my fingers last night so I'm in.
I'm pretty new to jazz guitar having come from a more blues background and I still struggle to make things sound "jazzy" so I'm hoping this book will help with that but also make my blues solos more interesting. My plan is if I can get this book down then I can then move onto the rhythm changes and standards book and move more into the jazz world.
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