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All of the shapes on the top neck are F chords,. On the second neck, they are all Bb chords. On the bottom neck, they are all Eb chords.
Originally Posted by richb2
If you're playing over an F chord, if you are down at the nut, the "F" shape is handy. If you're in the middle of the neck, the "D" shape is handiest. If you're up around the 12th fret, the "long A" shape is what you want to work from.
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02-21-2015 06:06 PM
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OK. I understand.
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Thanks Mark, these are helpful.
edh
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Yes thanks Mark, the chart is useful.
Is it possible to rearrange it for a Bb blues reading the 1 chord Bb at the top, the 4 chord Eb in the middle, and the 5 chord F at the bottom.
That would make more sense to me, if similar charts were made for the other main keys that would be really useful.
Andy.
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I'll see what I can do.... Thanks for the interest! Originally Posted by andyb
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I think I continue to be waaaay behind you guys but I wanted to let you know I'm still with the book. Working through and memorizing the material associated with patterns 1 and 2......
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Hey gang -- I've been working mostly on the second solo. Here's some of it, in 2 parts:
Last edited by JazzinNY; 02-23-2015 at 02:20 AM.
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And here's the second part:
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Nicely done. Thanks. Originally Posted by JazzinNY
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This measure trips me up more than any other one in the whole solo.
It starts with two quarter notes (C, C)...
I don't think that what is written is quite what Herb is playing at that point on the CD. (I play this as written but when I play along with the CD, I fall out of time with Herb.)
Anyone else have that problem here? (Or a similar problem somewhere else in the "Blues In C" solo? I have a trouble spot in each of the other two solos, but first things first!)
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Let me say a couple things about that. First, this isn't a race, so don't assess your progress by anyone else's. Second, it may help you internalize the shapes to learn a few of the lines from the first solo. Originally Posted by angelpa
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Thanks Mark!
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Yes, you are right. (This is actually the first time I've listened to the CD). What I have is: Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
C# C as 8th notes, with 8th rests following;
B A G F as 8ths (which uses up the measure);
then E-F-E trill and D. So it goes beyond the measure.
My approach has been to use the solos as general guidance and then modify as I see fit -- for instance I changed the next-to-last line in the solo I recorded, to fit more naturally for me.
Another thing in that C solo, not really a problem but something I find interesting: in the next-to-last measure: you can most easily play those notes all in 5th position, thinking Shape 1.
When you look at the tab and fingering, he explicitly tells you to shift into Shape 2. I rebelled at first, and then adopted. The point is, if you slide smoothly from one shape to another, it opens up interesting lines and phrasing.
And last night I found a variation on that -- after hitting the A with 3d finger, you slide that 3d finger up to the C on 10th fret, same string. Now you're in position for Shape 2.
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I am on bar 5 of blues in C. Over the F7 it seems that he is playing a Dm arp. I realize that Fmaj and Dm are pretty close. But the chord shape in Bar 5 doesn't seem to correspond to the F7 chord. I am slightly confused by this? Any rational here?
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What do you mean?
F7 F, A, C, Eb
Dm7 D, F, A, C
Bar 5 starts with a D and a D appears numerous times in bars 5 and 6. To me this looks like a Dm7. There must be some rule we can gather from this use?Last edited by richb2; 02-24-2015 at 10:17 AM.
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The chord shape in bar five is for an F in that position. It is not an F7 grip per se.( Herb's main dominant 7 grips are shapes 4 and 5.) The F and A notes are the top two notes of that shape and also the top two notes (the 3rd and 5th) of a D minor arpeggio. Originally Posted by richb2
Though Herb doesn't go into this, if you think of F as a I chord, its sixth would be D minor 7. The chords are diatonic subs for one another
At this point, it is best to learn the lines and relate them to the shapes. In time, the shapes will become as fields and you will have many options---including non-chord tones and chromatic tones----for each of the shapes.
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Thanks Mark. I have no problem with playing neighbor tones, as long as we all admit that they aren't actually part of that shape! BTW, in the next bar or two I hear him play what Bailey would call a G7 bebop scale which is very familiar to me.
I am not familiar with 50 Bebop Licks You Should Know and i'd hate to interrupt my progress through Blues in C to look it up.
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First you learn the shapes but as you learn the lines you realize that each shape is more than just the dots on a grid---your fingers gradually learn how to convert the music in your head into lines out of those shapes. Different lines fall out differently in different shapes. Originally Posted by richb2
For example, if you think of shape 3 (-the one that looks like a D chord), you see that the root is on the B string and the major third is on the high E string. You can run up four frets from that third and you will be at the fifth (-or you can run down from the fifth to the third.) It lays out real easy on the high E string. That's a common move in jazz improve (-blues too.) That run---on the high E string---is always out of that shape, the D shape, or shape 3 (or whatever you want to call it.)
If you want to do that same run out of another shape, it will fall on another string (or pair of strings.)
Only one of the notes (the 3rd) is in the shape, but playing out of shape means playing that line because it's convenient there.
Make sense?
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Ran across this today, the cover and Table of Contents from a book Herb published in 1963.
Gary Deacon - Solo Guitarist: The Herb Ellis Jazz Guitar Style - 1963
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I intend use this material in upcoming jam sessions, once I have it under my fingers that is, so I was thinking, can anyone recommend tunes to call at Jams, starting with ones in C that use the basic changes?
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Why, Ellington's "C Jam Blues," of course! ;o) It's a simple head, well known, and there you are. Originally Posted by andyb
Once you learn the solo in C, you should be able to play it in Bb (-for starters, move everything down two frets.) Lots of blues in Bb. "Blue Monk" and "Straight, No Chaser" are Bb blues. (The latter is also played in F.)
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Sandu, but it's in Eb
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Great stuff Mark -- you really help here, thank you.
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Mark I would love these in pdf, if possible.
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for these I find them really useful. I'm still waiting for my birthday to receive the Swing Blues book, and in the meantime I've been trying to learn some Charlie Christian solos, applying the shapes you've put here. In an earlier post you showed a shape you called 'short A' which I've used and found helpful, but I notice that its not included in this recent list of shapes. Is it one of Herb's shapes or one of your own?
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A really nice pickup in a cheap guitar
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