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Originally Posted by Edenfield99
He's about learning good jazz lines and how to use them. Here's a video of him playing "Sweet Georgia Brown." Buying his books won't make you this good but studying them will help you understand how he puts solos together and also teach you some first-rate lines to play.
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12-21-2016 11:04 AM
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Logistics: I got a new webcam and a tripod. Before I could set it up my laptop died. A new one (-meaning, a more recently refurbished one) will greet me Christmas morning. (Yay!)
I'll make a few short videos and hope they jump start this thread.
Please note, this thread will go the way the participants want it to go. We'll work it out in ways that suit those of us participating. (And if you have ideas / suggestions, please share them.)
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Herb Ellis "Swing Blues" Book/cd. If anyone in this group requires this here in the UK I have a pristine copy available, as downsizing my library; £ 6.50 free p&p uk only. If you live outside UK £6.50p + airmail rate. Pay by" PayPal" Any questions please PM me. Thanks. This has now been SOLD to a group member,
Last edited by jazzuki; 01-31-2017 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Item SOLD
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Although I want to devote most of my time to learning tunes and continuing my crawl through the Mickey Baker book, a Herb Ellis study might be a nice complement to both.
When do we start?
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I'm holding off on buying a book until I'm certain which one we'd start with. "Swing Blues" seems to be the focus, but I not sure.
Since this thread now has 265 posts, I wonder if a new thread should be started to revitalize the discussion.
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Originally Posted by KirkP
That said, if we get this thing going again, I'm open to whatever would improve the chances of getting others to join us.
"Swing Blues" is probably the best one to start with, but all three books teach the same shape system. (The latter books contain more chord types and more complex chord progressions.)
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Originally Posted by snailspace
I got a new webcam, so I'll be ready to start on videos right away. Have company for another day or so, but then I'll be fine.
We could say New Year's Day. (Anyone already here can post before then, but it would be a date we could remember when looking back from, say, March or July of '17 and marveling at how far we've all come! ;o)
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Originally Posted by snailspace
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Originally Posted by snailspace
"Swing Blues" seems the natural place to start, but if someone wants to work in one of the other volumes, I think we could accommodate that.
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Originally Posted by pants
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Started looking at the swing blues volume tonight. The "shapes" concept matches up well with how I have always inherently visualized the fretboard. Sort of a codification/formalization of my tendencies. I'm just in the initial part where the set of shapes are introduced so far.
At the same time as I'm working through this, I'm setting myself to digging into the Leavitt method, largely as a vehicle to strengthen my weak reading skills. I feel like the very formal theory based approach alongside Ellis' more organic approach will allow me to try to mine the best of both worlds.
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Bowing out, ungracefully.
After thinking things over, I realized that even though I like and respect the playing of Herb Ellis , he doesn't make my Top 5 list of favorite jazz guitarists. It doesn't make much sense for me to spend time studying the work of one player when there are others I prefer, just because I have a book he wrote.
Nevertheless, best wishes to all -- I hope the study group goes well and I wish you much success!
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Originally Posted by snailspace
Herb is in my top 5, so studying him is an easy choice for me. Though I've learned from some people who weren't my favorite players, such as Pat Martino. He is great and I admire him but his playing doesn't connect with me the way Herb's does. But I'll never regret learning the "line studies" from his "Linear Expressions." They opened many doors for me.
But we each make our own choices. There are so many options and so little time. Whatever keeps you playing and growing.
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I read somewhere where he said he and Ray Brown would occasionally rehearse without Oscar (secretly, if I remember correctly), just so they could tighten up their accompaniment.
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Originally Posted by snailspace
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Okay, here's a clammy take of chorus one of Herb's "Blues in C" from the book "Swing Blues."
The Jimmy Raney group works on solos in four-bar sections and that seems like something we might want to do. I played 12 bars, but if we want to work in four-bar units, that would be fine. A five or six chorus solo (such as Blues In C" and "Bounce Blues" are) is not the work of a day, or a week, or even a month.
If we go a few bars at a time, no one falls too far behind if they miss a week, and those who wish to work ahead are free to do so.
I think the main good that comes from this is that a few of us keep at it and get some feedback about our playing. It keeps us motivated without overwhelming us. And we develop the habit of working on something and monitoring our progress.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I found myself struggling a bit with the 16th triplet timing/execution. Kept throwing me off. I was also working without backing track or metronome so, that'd probably help. I have a new amp due later this week and tentatively hoping to get 1st 12 bars of this and another chunk of Raney in at that point. That might be too ambitious though. We'll see.
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Originally Posted by pants
Doing it chorus by chorus (12 bars at a time) makes good sense. The fingerings are given, as you say, and that makes things easier (in this respect) than the Raney Group solos. But perhaps we can talk about trouble spots, about what came easy and what came hard, and timing. Herb had a phenomenally good sense of time---it's easy to play the lines and drift if one is not careful.
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Can I suggest 4 bars as it is a good way to break down the 3 sections of a blues. That way we can really absorb each section play Herbs transcription and then in addition maybe later in a week put ourself into it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by gggomez
Another option is to play with backing tracks at different speeds or with different feels. (Not all the time. It won't be required. But one value of learning these lines---especially blues lines---is also learning how to play them over different grooves.)
Let's say Monday, Jan 8 is the deadline for the first four bars.
Next, Monday Jan 15 is the deadline for bars 4-8 (you can play 1-8, if you like)
Then, Monday Jan 15 is the deadline for bars 9-12 (you can play 1-12, if you like.)
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Originally Posted by tbone
I have a copy of Herb's "Blues Shapes" but without the cassette. I've never heard those lines played by Herb. Some choice stuff there and I've worked up a few choruses.
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Here's a quick take on the first chorus of "Swing Blues" but played in a different position, what Herb calls "shape 3" and a CAGED player would call "D". (And Jimmy Bruno would call "fingering 3.")
The first few bars of this are right out of the scale given for this shape in Herb's book. It's a LOT harder to play in this position (esp for me and my big hand at that spot on a guitar with a shallow cutaway.) But it's good to take things and move them around so that you internalize how the same line needs to be fingered in different area of the fretboard.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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I actually have the cassette but no way to play it. I may try to find a player that converts to MP3. I was lucky enough to get the cassette from Jake Hanna's wife who works on my son's basses. It was given to her by Herb when the book came out.
I will see what I can do. I mostly play straight blues stuff, but it never hurts to expand.
RaveLast edited by rave; 01-07-2017 at 12:17 PM. Reason: misspelling
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