Modes and Major Scales

[Reg]

Sorry to jump in late... There is a difference between playing modally and playing tonally.

For the most part... we play tonally, every thing we play has a basic beginning relationship to Major/Min harmony. Maj./min. harmony is what defines the basic rules of how and what we play sounds. Why chords and notes go where they go. (function). There are basic guidelines, general tendencies all based on Major... We include Minor because we decided long ago to make minor function to the same set of rules. The rules govern interval resolutions, the main being the tri-tone... this harmonic system, Maj/Min harmony is based on Ionian and Ionian's scheme or organization of notes, intervals, root motion, voice leading... again where chords and notes want to go...

Tonality refers to the relationships of these tones... (the key). When we as jazz players play in a modal style... we're changing the beginning or basic relationships... the beginning guidelines.... we're changing which notes are going to create these relationships. The notes which define the tonality... define the key.

So when you play using different improve techniques, different methods of creating relationships between notes and chords, there is generally a basic reference to a tonal center. Generally that is maj./min. tonality. That II V I your playing has a reference. You can play whatever you choose... but it is usually in relationship to a tonality and one of those notes is generally the tonal center. Modal tonalities have different guide lines, rules of relationships...

In that II V I context... you can use the II V I as a Chord Pattern, chord patterns function like one chord and develop relationships, improve with the CP as single reference. Or You can use each chord of the II V I as individual tonal centers, each chord is basic reference for creating relationships... obviously a little more difficult. You could also imply different modal contexts on the CP or again on each chord.

Usually all these concepts are going on simultaneously... along with a few other basic jazz harmonic concepts. But you do need to start somewhere and develop from there.

Chord Scale Theory is not really a harmonic System... it's simply a method of learning general harmonic jazz practice.
The use of scales is for complete note reference at any given point in physical time of tunes. You could organize the complete note collection, (the scale), in any method one chooses, arpeggios, chord tones...whatever.

The main point of CST is the description of relationships between chords and scales and what has been basic jazz practice. What the majority of jazz players have used in the last 50 or 60 years. It is a method to become aware of the possibilities of different relationships that are jazz practice that traditional theory, harmony and analysis don't cover.

I can go on... but I'm probably losing interest...

Reg

[tstrahle]

Here's a C Mixolydian jam track I created...

On my Youtube channel you'll find the seven modes in C (C Mixolydian, C Dorian, C Phrygian) vamping for a little over 6 minutes. I will do other keys too later, i.e.. the modes in A, E, G, etc.

I hope it helps.

[ChrisDowning]

Joe Pass famously said, "Before anyone asks me about modes - I don't think like that so I know nothing about modes." For Joe it was about playing not theorising as he saw it.

Jimmy Bruno's 'No Nonsence Jazz' is a good place to start studying scales and modes though and he has a little book on the subject as well. He thinks like some posters here - a Dorian is just a scale starting from the second note of a normal major scale, and on through all the others as well. But he has some interesting stuff to tell on context - many scales fit a single chord, but make it sound different because we have changed its context.

I wouldn't over thrash the modes though. There is very little exam work done right up to Grade 8 on modes - the higher grades just touch on them - and it would be easy to avoid them all together and still get a great Grade 8 pass.

[Reg]

Hey Chris...it's always about playing.... But it seem like we we're talking about playing on this thread and what's the difference between simply calling Dorian a major scale beginning on the second degree and why when some players use a modal organization of basic major scale notes... There might be a difference and what might make those differences. Context makes a difference, whether we play or not. But maybe there's more.
Reg

[ChrisDowning]

Yes agree with all you say. Just don't want to depress newer players with all the mode stuff. It takes quite a bit of experience as a player before it really kicks in beyond scales against chord tones.