Naima Chord Changes

**Jonah** · 03-10-2020, 05:01 AM

I would not look at the chord symbols but rather listen to changes... Naima is pretty simple tune imho if you go through it by ear.

I do not discard of course anything that is said above... it could be the way too. But in his particular case it is overcomplication imho.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-11-2020, 10:57 AM

Old thread, but Naima is ALL major type chords over pedals.

I play it up a half step

**christianm77** · 03-11-2020, 02:33 PM

Yes I think Jeff is right. It’s all major sevenths and triads over bass notes. There’s also a maj7+5 iirc. I’d need to revisit it’s been a while since I looked at this tune (like over a decade)

usually this approach sounds a lot better than a scalic approach on this tune. I think this would also be a great tune for Jordan’s quadrad approach .

**christianm77** · 03-11-2020, 02:49 PM

So something like:

Dbmaj7/Eb | Fmaj7/Eb | Amaj7/Eb Gmaj7/Eb | Abmaj7 ||

Bmaj7/Bb | E/Bb | Bmaj7/Bb | E/Bb |
Dmaj7#5/Bb | Bmaj7/Bb | Abmaj7/Bb | Gb13 (not sure what I did for that)

lots of third relations

**Cunamara** · 03-12-2020, 12:10 AM

All those minor 9s in the Real Book chart are really the relative major7s. So Bbmin9 = Dbmaj7, etc. mr. beaumont's post covers it.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-12-2020, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

So something like:

Dbmaj7/Eb | Fmaj7/Eb | Amaj7/Eb Gmaj7/Eb | Abmaj7 ||

Bmaj7/Bb | E/Bb | Bmaj7/Bb | E/Bb |
Dmaj7#5/Bb | Bmaj7/Bb | Abmaj7/Bb | Gb13 (not sure what I did for that)

lots of third relations

Yes, this is pretty similar to how I hear it:

So over Eb: Dbmaj7 | Gbmaj7 | Amaj7 Gmaj7 | Abmaj7 :||

Then over Bb: Bmaj7 | Abmaj7#5 | Bmaj7 | Abmaj7#5

Dmaj7#5 | Bmaj7#5 | Abmaj7#5 | Emaj7

**mr. beaumont** · 03-12-2020, 11:00 AM

Had a few minutes here, so let me lead with saying that what's cool about maj7#5 chords is they have a major triad based off their 3rd built right into them.

Some of these chords imply some other things...I'll post more fluently later during my lunch break, when I can grab a guitar.

**christianm77** · 03-12-2020, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Which answers my question. Thank you.

So what would you play over them? Lydian for M7's and mel m for M7#5's? Or something else? Presumably not root major scales.

i remember not being happy with scalic approaches on this tune. I think that would work, sure, but I want better than simply ‘not wrong’.

i don’t have a lot of time to play for fun atm so I haven’t been able to dig into it much. I would probably start with those superimposed chord tones and go from there.

but I generally like small pitch sets than you for improv.

beyond that, I’d have to check out some solos I liked over it. And probably learn to play bop on it as well.

**ragman1** · 03-12-2020, 03:51 PM

Christian -

Remember this? I actually sat all the way through this one. Very nice, and you looked so-o-o happy at the end. I don't know what you were doing (you can tell me if you like) but it was pretty good.

**christianm77** · 03-12-2020, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Christian -

Remember this? I actually sat all the way through this one. Very nice, and you looked so-o-o happy at the end. I don't know what you were doing (you can tell me if you like) but it was pretty good.

oh turns out I have played it relatively recently.

Not sure what’s going on there. Maybe I’m taking chord scales and breaking them up into funny intervals?

that was something I was into in 2016 iirc

**Cunamara** · 03-14-2020, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

... I want better than simply ‘not wrong’.

And that is the essence of learning to play jazz. We start learning chords and scales and modes and how functional harmony works, etc. But all that stuff just really teaches us is how to be "not wrong." It doesn't teach us to be right. That's found in learning what jazz sounds like and how to make what we play sound like jazz, and then learning how to make what we play sound like us.

A lifelong process.

**Oz Perch** · 03-29-2020, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by EDesa

Thanks Matt and John - it was a big help.
Ok, so I have a few more issues with this tune. I'll just write out some of the chords and how I'm looking at them and maybe someone can give me a little advice:

Bbm7/Eb - Eb Mixo (no G)
Ebm7 - Eb Dorian
Amaj7/Eb - Eb Loc
Gmaj7/Eb - G Mel Maj
Bmaj7/Bb - Bb Phryg
Bb13b9 - Eb Mel Maj
Bm9(maj7)/Bb - not sure
Abmaj7/Bb - Bb Mixo (no D)
Gb13/Eb - not sure
Abmaj7/Eb - Eb Ionian

If anyone had any suggestions that would help me out a lot!
Thanks!

I have been trawling the web for charts for Naima and there are a lot of different ones.

The chords you have listed as Amaj7/Eb and Gmaj7/Eb appear in some charts as B13/Eb and A13/Eb, which sounds better to my ear.

Also, the Bm9(maj7)/Bb I think appears as E13/Bb. The problem of mode selection seems simpler if you think of these chords as altered 7th chords.

**christianm77** · 03-31-2020, 08:44 AM

**Djang** · 03-31-2020, 09:39 AM

Eric Dolphy, way ahead of his time. He stays surprisingly close to the harmony and the melody here. Wonderful.

the enclosure of the major chord b9Maj7-7Maj7-rootMajor7 should really be used and called “the Naima Sequence”.

there, I said it!

**Durban** · 04-02-2020, 08:04 AM

JC's instructions for you kids.

Naima Chord Changes-naima-jpg

**ragman1** · 04-02-2020, 08:12 AM

So who changed it to the Real book version Bbm7 - Eb7 etc etc? And why?

And has he written petal instead of pedal? That's quite sweet :-)

**ragman1** · 04-02-2020, 08:15 AM

This one gets it right.

**christianm77** · 04-02-2020, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Durban

JC's instructions for you kids.

Naima Chord Changes-naima-jpg

thats a chart I can respect. Chord symbols when it’s sensible, exact voicings when desired.

**ragman1** · 04-02-2020, 07:23 PM

So how did the Real Book version of the chords come about? Anyone know?

**mr. beaumont** · 04-02-2020, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

So how did the Real Book version of the chords come about? Anyone know?

College student's ears.

**ragman1** · 04-03-2020, 01:19 AM

Why? Why change Coltrane? I suspect this might be a rhetorical question...

**Durban** · 04-03-2020, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Why? Why change Coltrane?

interesting question, but on the other hand i suppose why not? Miles changed a lot of peoples tunes, supposedly not W Shorters.

**ccroft** · 04-03-2020, 09:28 PM

Go over to theory and just skip thru a few threads of folks trying to decide how to name a chord. Maybe it has something to do with that? I don't have what it takes to compare Dflat maj 7/ Eflat to Bflat 13 flat 9.

What a silly 'system'.

**ragman1** · 04-04-2020, 09:29 AM

To be fair, he only wrote a few M7's out, the rest are just note clusters without names. So, as you say, we can spend pages worrying over their names. Can't play them on a guitar anyway!

But they changed DbM7 - GbM7 to Bbm7 - Eb7 which seems a bit odd.

Or (simplifying it because I'm very basic) that's C to F in the key of G with a D pedal. Which I don 't think means anything at all, it's just a sound. Or it's a quartal chord... and he did the same kind of thing later with an aug triad.