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I swore there was a similar thread on this, but the search didn't give any results.
I've been playing for almost 13 years now. I graduated from Berklee and I'm getting my master's degree in Jazz studies at UArts in Philadelphia. I'm relatively satisfied with my playing, but ever since I started, speed has been an issue.
Now I know you can always just take a lick, sit down with a metronome, and slowly increase it more and more.
Has anybody come across a speed exercise that really helped? I just wanted to be able to hang with really up tempo tunes.
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06-09-2012 02:34 PM
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You might want to check your pick attack to make sure it is consistent. (If it *is*, then you should have no trouble playing fast, given how long you've been playing and how much material you doubtless know inside and out.) Question: does your pick move when you play? (I don't mean move against the strings but rather, change its position in your right hand? If it does, that could be a problem.)
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lol, that's a pretty bold statement man, I'd have to say I disagree.
Originally Posted by markerhodes
I should maybe explain, Im talking about burning speed, realllll fast (Martino's 'Impressions' speed). I can play relatively fast, I just wanna get to the point of extreme speed.
I'm not saying I can't do it, because it's already coming along and I'm sure in the next year or two ill have it. I'm just looking for an exercise specifically addressing this subject.
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I remember reading John Scofield interview once and they got into same topic. Sco said he's can't really pick fast so he's worked on hammer-on's, pull-offs, and other techniques play fast lines.
Everyone has a fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscles and most have more of one than the other. That's why different people do better in different sports. That comes into play with music too. So you want to play fast you need to play with different techniques (including picking methods) to find ways that will work for you.
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I'm not saying that everyone can burn. (And I'm definitely not saying that I can burn!)
But I am saying this: if you can't play fast something you know cold, then something is up with your picking technique.
If you can't play *anything* fast, then maybe you just don't have speed. But if you can play SOME things fast but not many, well, again, I think it's in the picking technique.
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They don't teach you how to "burn" at Berklee?
Glad I passed on that scholarship
sorry - I know this post provided no value to the discussion, the tequilla made me...
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Herb Ellis mentioned picking with hammer ons and pulloffs. He said he couldn't play as fast as he does if he didn't use them.
Just my 2 centavos.(not worth very much in today's economy.)
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Use "Guitar Speed" software.
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I think picking technique is not the only problem. Look at Nelson Veras. This guy uses only the energy he really needs to play something. His left hand playing is amazing. The way he stands, extremely relaxed, is a good example of conservation of energy. Originally Posted by markerhodes
So, do your fingers move a lot when you play ? Your hands ? How do you stand when you play ? Do you have a good center of gravity ? Do you tap foot ?
All these things consume more or less energy, that will affect your overall playing, including speed.
I personally have a few of these problems. When I don't play in position, when I use the same finger twice, when I'm crisped... I lose speed, among other things. You have to know your body very well to burn.
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Being able to play at fast tempos... relates to having not just good, but almost perfect technique. If you check out guitarists who can hang at very fast tempos... they generally play from wrist . Obviously they have very little movement.
The next detail is a complete fingering system that covers the neck seamlessly, again with the least amount of movement.
The picking issue is well documented... start with alternating and go from there.
As with almost everything in music you need a base system to start with, something to relate to. Which becomes your instinct, your default inner musician, the player who's always there. May not be your best playing, but is reliable.
Once you get to that point... you'll have much easier time covering non-standard or specialized styles of playing for effects or specialized sounds.
I can hang at very fast tempos very easily, have lots of chops, always have. I've never been a memorize and perform player, my ability to play at fast tempos... comes from what I said above but also...I understand music concepts. I don't need to memorize or practice something to be able to perform at fast tempo.
Can be as simple as the use of Form... Jazz tunes fit into Forms, that repeat. There may have interludes, intros, outros, etc... but there is a Form. This concept of form and shapes also works with harmonic, melodic and rhythmic aspects of music. You can't memorize everything. You'll forget, and usually at lousy times. It's not simply how much time you put on your instrument... you need organization of that time.
Reg
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Lol, you're pretty far off with that thinking man. I contemplated going to Berklee for a year going back and forth, thinking about how I wanted the world class education but I didn't want to go so far away. Deciding to go was one of the best decisions I've ever made for myself. I wouldn't be even close to where I am now without having experienced Berklee. Originally Posted by onetruevibe
They don't teach you how to "burn" at Berklee?
Glad I passed on that scholarship
Berklee is an absolutely incredible school for jazz. The guitar faculty there is without a doubt one of the best for jazz in the entire country, 100% without a doubt. Especially Richie Hart. He is an absolute master of everything Wes related, and studied with Benson for years. He taught me a way to look at the guitar like I've never ever seen anywhere else before (the same way Wes approached it).
Trust me, I was very very skeptical about how credible Berklee was, but after graduating from the program, I totally back everything that goes with the Berklee reputation.
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That's all really great advice. Markerhodes, to answer you, I can play some stuff very fast, like a memorized line, so it's not that I don't have the technique. It's definitely there.
What I've found most helpful is transcribing some double-time lines. The Pat Martino Jazz book is pretty much all double-time 16th note lines. Really, really internalizing those lines has made it a lot easier to work some really fast lines into my playing.
I've never really taken time to specifically address my playing speed, but now that I am, I have to say it's actually coming along pretty quickly. Every post in this thread is really great advice. Thanks guys.
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I know - I was totally just goofing. Originally Posted by bluewaterpig
I am so new to playing jazz, the thought of me ever getting to point where "burning" was a realistic goal, is almost ridiculous. This thread just made it so obvious the amount of work ahead of me and how out-leagued I am by so many on this forum.
I have absolutely nothing against Berklee or anyone who has studied there. I'm just glad to be here to learn from you guys. All apologies for anyone I may have offended.
Please continue with the discussion.
Brian
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I get that, though Herb was pretty fleet anyway. (Anyone who could hang with Oscar Peterson has got chops.) He was faster than Charlie Christian and I think we all agree that Charlie could've played faster if he didn't use downstrokes 80 % of the time! (That's what Barney Kessell claimed.) Maybe he needed the volume. Originally Posted by edh
By the way, hammers and pulls do generate speed but they can throw your lines way off if you don't have a steady sense of time at fast tempos.
I think a lot of it has to do with tension. "Uh-oh, man, this tune is blazing! Can I keep up?" That anxiety will make it harder to play your best. (Hell, impossible.)
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The maddening thing about really fast speed, at least for me, is that if you have to continually practice at those tempos or the chops start to fade.
At least this is true for me. It can make you want to shed a tear if you worked hard getting there.
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The question is "what's a good exercise for building speed," with the goal of being able to improvise fast lines.
I spent a few years working on "line-speed" or whatever you want to call it, mostly focusing on technique, and that was all well and good, but I should have been focusing more on vocabulary, or at least putting my technical exercises into the context of vocabulary rather than isolated drills. Improvising lines on an umptempo tune is a much more involved situation than just being able to play a scale, line, or exercise at a fast speed with the metronome.
Even if you can move your hands fast enough, you have to be able to conceptualize what to play, which is a different skill.
There are a lot of exercises for building chops. A lot of books, a lot of techniques, approaches. Even if we're talking about "speed technique," there's not going to be just one exercise that does the trick.
But it sounds like you actually can play fairly "fast," move your hands, etc, but you are looking to be able to improvise lines at a fast tempo, is that right?Last edited by JakeAcci; 06-10-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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Clint Strong has very fast right hand.
He use I think easy down-up stroke metode.
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Adam Rogers teaches via skype when his schedule allows. Depending on what you are going for, he may be able to give you some pointers.
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There are technical things for sure. Right hand is a big one. I have a slew of right hand exercises I do almost ever day. I spent many years working just on technique: repeatedly working the fretboard knowledge from scale patterns, through all kinds of arpeggios and exercises. And I could always play fast, especially at double timing on more med up tunes. But BURNING I had limited stamina for. I'd tense up, get anxious, think too much and I focused too much energy on my right hand when the notes were coming from my left.
So then I started improvising solos with a metronome at various tempos. This helped tremendously. I wouldn't so much put the BPM at the highest burning tempo, but fast enough to give me trouble and cause me trouble. The goal was to be creative, relax and play the tempo.
After doing this for a while consistently, I had no problems burning at fast tempos and playing stuff that mattered.
There are a lot of factors to playing well fast. Obviously if your technique is shady, that's the first one. But the main thing, for me, was knowing what I'm playing. This is the crucial factor. You could say have a decent vocab. But I'd rather say be able to HEAR at faster tempos. Transcriptions help. But getting your voice at 250-300 or so BPM is the most important factor.Last edited by henryrobinett; 06-11-2012 at 09:17 AM.
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I played bluegrass guitar for years and found that focusing on the left, fretting hand was actually more necessary in building speed. It's not only how fast you can pick, but how fast your hands can work together.
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Yes. You said in two sentences what I tried to say in too many.
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Your left hand has to be on the fret first so actually it's out in front of the right. I found that my mistakes were the result of sloppy fingerings.
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Hey blue water! I'm sorry I can't offer you much advice as you are obviously a much experienced player than myself. One thing I find helps my right and left hand co ordination is play big min11 arps across 6 strings, I
Note per string. Eg...(from low E upwards...)
Gmin11 - G D A Bb F C
I find moving that shape around and experimenting by playing it with triplets, 4 semi quavers per note etc has helped my picking...anyway that's just my very own thing and may not work for everyone...
One thing that really intrigued me is what you mentioned about the way you view the neck? The way wes did? Could you elaborate? I'm
Sure some of us over in the uk would love
To know exactly what you mean and also other guitar related things you studied at berklee?
Good
Luck man!
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