Practising Pat Martino minor lines

[yaclaus]

I agree. I am practising the lines in swing and straight style and my metronome will not get much past 116 in any case Don´t you just move the pattern to play it in every key? You don´t have to make up new positions or strings to start from?

[kris]

key is not a big problem I think...:-)

[aniss1001]

Just wondering.. Does anyone actually use the minor conversion system?

I've also been practicing some of these lines. Never saw the book but there are several online sources on the matter (both the lines and the system), including some decent youtube lessons.

Anyway I used the system a bit when I started out. Not because of Martino but simply because it seemed like a natural way to simplify things. But I find it less and less useful as I get more into jazz.

If you think about it there isn't much too it. His lines are based mainly on the dorian and the melodic minor scales with some chromatic passing notes. Let's say we are talking A minor...

Obviously the lines fit over C major chord because an A dorian contains the same notes as a C lydian (both derived from the G major scale). An A melodic minor corresponds to a C lydian #5 which also fits over a C major chord.

For similar reasons the A minor lines will also fit over a D7 and a F#m7b5. If you know your major and melodic minor modes it all makes sense.

I can't recall what he would do over an altered chord? The most logical approach would be play the line half a step above (=Ab minor over G7Alt) But I think he would play it a whole step below (=F minor over G7Alt) but I'm not sure. Over altered chords there are several things that would work I think.

Anyway just wondering if anyone actually use the system and not just the lines?!

[kris]

minor thinking....this is a system I think.
If you have this basic lines in your fingers you can concentrate on feel and chord progresions.This is Pat Martino method.He love to play fast long lines.

[bluewaterpig]

I do use the systematic method to think about which minor scales to play.

I've seen Pat talk about his minor system in serious depth at UArts before and there is much, MUCH more to it than the few simple conversions that we think of. He has like 4-5 minor modes that he utilizes for each chord quality, some of which you would never think of and they end up sounding very, very out there.

[aniss1001]

@bluewaterpig

OK?! Well as I said I've only been peaking at online material (written and youtube) based on Martinos system (and in particular the book mentioned). From what I could gather it was simply a matter of aproaching all chords from a corresponding minor that fits as I explained in my previous post. This simplyfies the task of playing changes and also gives you more economy in your licks since then all licks can be used over any chord.

But it sounds interesting what you say. Can you elaborote on that? That is these 4-5 minor modes?

[M-ster]

I do use the systematic method to think about which minor scales to play.

I've seen Pat talk about his minor system in serious depth at UArts before and there is much, MUCH more to it than the few simple conversions that we think of. He has like 4-5 minor modes that he utilizes for each chord quality, some of which you would never think of and they end up sounding very, very out there.

I transcribed some lines from a YT video, here:
Pat Martino - Multiple Substitutions

These demonstrate applying E, G, Bb, and Db minor against A7, if you're interested.

[aniss1001]

I transcribed some lines from a YT video, here:
Pat Martino - Multiple Substitutions

These demonstrate applying E, G, Bb, and Db minor against A7, if you're interested.

Ah yes I remember having watched this some time ago. I suppose that is what bluewaterpig meant by the different "minor modes".

And yes as I mentioned over altered chords you have many options according to his system.

I find that over dominants in general and altered dominants in particular you can play whatever as long as it resolves well. The function of these chords is creating tension as is so you can either go with that tension (playing inside notes) or add to that tension (playing outside notes).

I've also seen Joe Pass lines where he would play a C minor over G7 to create an altered sound and Scofield play a C# minor pentatonic over a Bb7 to do the same.

EDIT: Ah another thing you can do over dominant chords is simply play the chord that is resolves to half a step above. That is for exemple over a G7 (altered or not) that resolves to a CM7 you could play a C#M7. It seem to do the trick too. It creates tension and resolves well to CM7.

Anyway thanks for sharing M-ster