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I have been improvising using a few licks here and there, and morphing them around into different versions of the same phrase. I now have question(s):
How many keys do I need to learn to play a lick in?
Can you experienced Jazz guitarists instantly play a song in all the different keys or do you have only two or three keys accomplished?
Which keys are you most likely to be called upon to play in?
Please give me your thoughts. Thanks.
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02-08-2012 02:33 PM
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As far as songs go, I listen to a bunch of versions and see if there is a preferred key or two or three. Those are the ones I start with.
Every few months, I'll take a tune, either a new one or one I know comfortably in one key and learn it in all 12 keys. I might never use it, but the exercise is always revealing...it shows me a lot about what I know and don't know, and forces me to play in keys I might stray away from...I'm currently doing this with "Someday My Prince Will Come," which I've fallen in love with a little too much in my solo version key of G...it's often played in Bb, So I'm actually trying to devise a version that moves in minor thirds from G to Bb to Db to F...
For licks, I try to learn them in different areas of the neck, and in different octaves...that's more important to me than key for licks, as they're essentially just moving an idea up or down...learning the lick on different string sets allows me to adapt it if the key gets too high or low.
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I was afraid one of you would say this... Gosh, the bar is really high for those wanting to be a complete player.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Learning my licks in different areas of the guitar and different string sets is like proofreading one of my term papers over and over again. I really don't like it.
Thanks for another reality check, Mr. B.
For now, I will just try and learn licks in a couple of areas and string sets. Who knows, it might actually turn out to be kind of fun, hearing the different variations in tone and timbre.
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I stress 6 keys to start...start with easy progressions and move on...
Like Summertime...almost everyone plays Am....think 5th fret barre chord....next Dm at the 5th fret..see the two forms as the base for this?
Moving up and down the fingerboard will be easy using these two form bases..
Time on the instrument..pierre
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Thanks for the example, Mr. P. Originally Posted by pierre richard
Time...
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What a sad situation it must be to have a song down really well, get invited up to the bandstand, and then have them play it in a key you don't know.
Is it normal for the band to adjust to your key or are YOU supposed to be able to adjust? What happens in the real world?
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I lean everything in all 12 keys, change the quality if possible (major to dominant, minor, etc), superimpose them over other chords than the original (if they also fit).
On the guitar fretboard, it is important to move things to all string sets, positions ans octave ranges. A bit of work, but adding to your on-demand vocabulary and understanding of motifs is a great thing to put time into.
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i find learning standards in all 12 is a great way to actually remember them. and also develop ear training. as was said, good for working on fingerings as well, though most cool licks only lay well in 1 or 2 positions.
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12. And with different "starting fingers." Originally Posted by AlsoRan
As far as songs go, the straight answer is, it depends. For standards, you're likely to have them called in any number of keys (especially if you have a singer in the mix), so best to learn the harmonic progression by function rather than by specific keys. That said, most standards are called in maybe 3 keys, tops. For instance, Green Dolphin Street...typically in either C or Eb. I can play this one in all 12 keys with a little thought, but that's because I've worked the hell out of it and have listened to dozens of versions of it, and have put in some effort to hear the changes in my head, not rely on specific chords/keys. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
For a blues, again - learn it in all 12 keys, but usually they'll be called in either F, Bb, C, G, or Eb.
Rhythm changes...usually Bb, but occasionally other keys.
For contrafacts (esp. bop songs), I only learn them in the original key, because they're never (in my experience) called in any other key. This is nice, because when I learn bop heads, I do have a definite preferred fingering that facilitates playing fast/difficult horn lines on the guitar. I've never heard Confirmation called in anything but F, for instance.
Now as far as jazz tunes are concerned (by "jazz tunes," I mean tunes written by jazz musicians, that appeared originally on jazz albums, and that are NOT standards, blues or rhythm changes devices)...I learn these in the original key only. Again, for the same reason as above...they're only ever called in that key. I have yet to see Stablemates (which is in Db) called in G, for example.
As always, YMMV.
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Thanks.
There is no substitute for real world experience.
Again, thanks FJ.
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In the real world, if you're calling the tune, you're calling the key. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
But don't be a jerk. Many tunes have an established key...some songs, as jeff mentioned in his excellent post, do have two common keys (Autumn Leaves is another) and you should know them.
With singers all bets are off.
When learning a song, always do some listening...
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the standards .. i will go through the cycle of 5ths with them..here the roman numeral system is a must for me..it sets firmly the progressions..you also see many new ways to play the progression of different strings sets with inversions etc..
the licks...i try them in every key in as many positions as the neck will allow..on as many string sets...
extra credit assigment: sight reading-if the song is in G..transpose it in your head going through the COF..start with simple melodies at first...green dolphin street is a good one to start with..
wolf
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This is very revealing! And Bill Evans is so humble...
In this he famously speaks about theory and intuition, but more on topic here, he admits to not being able to play everything in every key (at least to his high standards I assume!). Later he and Marian talk about transposing and modulating at live gigs to difficult keys, etc.
Ironically, in The Harmony of Bill Evans books the author believes that Bill was superhuman and played everything known to piano in all 12 keys. Perhaps he was a little overzealous and idolized the master too much... Either way- I totally can't get enough of Bill Evans myself. He's one of my gurus of jazz thinking.
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Ditto!! Bill was the man! Originally Posted by JonnyPac
This is very revealing! And Bill Evans is so humble...
Either way- I totally can't get enough of Bill Evans myself. He's one of my gurus of jazz thinking.
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It really depends on the lick or the tune. If it's a lick I don't like that much, I try to not learn it in any key.
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Good one Jake!!! Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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lol That's funny, Jake. Really true. I've had to weed out lots of licks over the years!
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work in one key group every day, around the cycle...taking one day off a week gets you through all keys every two weeks. the remote keys become familiar, the easy keys are visits with old friends.
(key group = related keys for which licks are more or less interchangeable, as Am, D7, Cmaj.)
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I'd try to play the lick in multiple places on the neck in the key the tune was written in before moving onto the other keys. Ideally, you'd want to practice everything in all 12 keys, but sometimes you can take the lazy route and learn the shape and simply move it up or down how many frets :P
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