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After spending the last year memorizing the melodic minor scale in five positions to play Lydian Dominant or Super Locrian modes, I've "discovered"
that I get better, more musical and easier results just by inserting single or multiple non-chord tones, scalar or chromatic, in between chord tones as passing tones.
But you must have really mastered your major scales.
Finally, I'm getting the slinky, be-boppy sounds I've been searching so hard for.
Obvious, I know, but I just wanted to share this.
A happy jazzer!
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02-06-2012 07:37 AM
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Melodic minor and its modes is important. For me, when I'm hungry for more bebop vocabulary, I go straight to the source: transcribing from recordings, rather than practicing scales.
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Anything that gets you closer to making the sounds you want is good. Chromatic approaches and passing tones are a tried and true way of doing that; they're the basis for the "bebop" sound, and Ed Byrne has an entire method built around the idea.
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Hey Jake - would you share some insight on your process in transcribing? Apologies if you've posted on this before and if I missed it. (Slow downer/software/repetition/ears/ ...etc... ) It's definitely where I want to go...
Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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One thing about transcribing (which I do a lot of), it is not sufficient to just transcribe a solo and then be done with it. You have to take it apart, analyze it, pick out sections you really like and isolate those, & work them as exercises in all keys and all over the fretboard. Then those sounds will get into your playing.
Working right now on Clifford Brown "Sandu" and Freddie Hubbard playing "Green Dolphin Street." After this I will take apart a Wayne Shorter solo. (suggestions for that one, BTW?)
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FJ: How about transcribing Wayne's solo on Steely Dan's Aja? That would be an interesting choice and different from the obvious ones like, say, Footprints. I love all his stuff and have most of his albums. But learning the Aja solo would be fun... Originally Posted by FatJeff
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Do you have any examples that you can post just to hear it? I am not sure if I understand correctly..you are just inserting a chromatic tone or two that doesn't belong?
Sorry if it's extremely clear to others...I am a fairly new musician to jazz
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I don't have a recording, but that's the idea. for example if your scale takes you from c to e, for example, just add c#, d, and/or eb in between. Fill in the spaces, but always land on chord tones on important beats, to stay grounded.
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Congrats on the MM breakthrough... Cool stuff for sure.
Here's a bunch of material on it if you want more...
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/jazzg...es-chords.html
It's easy to add embellishments (chromatic connections, etc) between tones. Fill in the whole steps on weak beats- and you'll find some great little pockets to play with.
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Definitely gotta at some point put the time in (transcribing etc..) with straight bebop but I can relate to the OP here - I've been experimenting with "bop-melodic minor sandwiches", slapping together say, 2 beats of bop, followed by 2 beats of something from melodic minor or pentatonics etc....repeat ad nauseum. Basically, you can have all that bop slinkyness with a modern sound - very cool!
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And you do that at 200+ bpm? Man, your brain must work a lot faster than mine. :-) Originally Posted by Spirit59
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Yes and no - I certainly like to visit some of these places on the fretboard, unaccompanied, in rubato at times - there definitely can be some "pre-investigation" or shall we say....some "recon" Originally Posted by FatJeff
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I like your idea of "Bop sandwhiches" makes me hungry ;p
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I see you're asking for help - but you aren't saying what kind of help you need...can you be more specific? Originally Posted by langerz
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Hey whatwisdom, funny I was writing a response to you a few days ago and then my internet went out, it just came back on. I actually had a pretty long post going, luckily I was able to save it: Originally Posted by whatswisdom
Hmm well I'm no authority on the subject, but I have done a bit of it, and I have some thoughts.
First of all, I use a recording program like Audacity or any multi track recording software to view the audio file, so that rather than constantly rewinding on itunes or a CD player I can highlight the passage I'm trying to figure out (or even the note I'm trying to get) and just get the thing done a lot more accurately and in less time. If it's fast and I can't hear it accurately at tempo I'll slow it down. For ear training it's probably better to try to hear longer phrases and loop them until you can hear every note, and also maybe listen at full speed, but if my goal is play exactly what is played on the recording, I'll do whatever I need to do to make sure I'm as accurate as possible, and that might mean highlighting and figuring out some phrases in very small chunks. For chord voicings I find this is a lot easier too, especially if it's something dense; I can just highlight the chord and play it over and over again until I find each note.
So if you have a solo you like, the first issue I think of is figuring out how much of it to transcribe. You could do the whole thing or you could just find the one phrase you like and then work on that phrase quite a bit. On forums and in person I've heard different perspectives on this issue.
I look at it like this: to actually integrate vocabulary into your improvisation, you have to repeat the item quite a bit, but you also have to have some understanding of how the item fits into the harmony or the tune, or why the phrase is strong. So you could take a short phrase, like a measure or two, and I'd recommend doing the following (all of which I’ve done myself,) but I'm probably forgetting some things:
- Be able to sing it (doesn't have to be at tempo.) Personally I think being able to solfege it (moveable do) is a huge help, but some people disagree about the usefulness of solfege. I think solfege is great! The importance of singing the phrase is indisputable.
- Work on being able to play it with no mistakes - every time - along with the recording. Record yourself playing it with the recording to make sure you are matching accents, time feel (behind/ahead) and just grooving along like you’re part of the band.
- Analyze each note as it relates to the harmony of the moment, the key center as well as the chord change. Also looking at the intervals between each note of the phrase is important as well. Any observations about the rhythm (where does the phrase start, where does it end, how much space, what note values are used) are essential.
- Try as many fingerings and octaves as possible to "see" the phrase on different string sets and all over the neck, still being mindful of how each note relates to the key and to the chord changes. However, if it's a technically challenging line I think it's wise to find a few fingerings that are the most practical and stick to those when it comes time to perform.
- The integration phase: Take the line and play with the same notes but different rhythms, jam with the pitches. Or try to write or improvise your own phrases with the exact same rhythm of the original line (same accents and contours and everything) but your own pitches. Then just jam on the themes, or try to make more lines in the style of the original line. I think this is the essential step for actually getting the stuff into your playing. One of the first things I was ever instructed to do when I started getting into actual “jazz” (as opposed to being just a rock guitarist noodling over jazz harmony) was to learn Charlie Parker heads (heads, not solos) and just play them all day, play around with them, vary the themes, and not get too intellectual about it.
That's all with just one phrase. I think it's clear why it might be more productive to just take a line or two and really do a lot of work, rather than transcribe 10 choruses and be able to barely play them.
However, on the other side of things, it can be hard to dissect the character of a solo or an artist from just one phrase. So figuring out several choruses, or several dozen choruses, can give a lot of invaluable insights to a certain player’s approach. There might be some element that, looking at one phrase you think you've figured it out, but then looking at a hundred phrases you have better perspective about the method or habit that brought the player to that certain phrase, and then more insight as to how to incorporate that sound into your own improvisation.
Similarly, while all the detailed stuff above that you can do with one phrase is very valuable, there is a lot to be said for just learning a few (or all) choruses on the guitar and playing them with the recording over and over again. I think there’s something about that that is a more natural, intuitive assimilation – you’re just jamming along with the guys in the band. (This music doesn't have to be intellectual - a lot of the greats got pretty far just "playing.")
Oh, and, a weak point for me: It’s also important to see the long term arc of an entire solo. A lot of players start by getting good at making small jazz phrases, but the whole solo should be cohesive, so it’s good to see how our favorite players tie all their ideas together.
So there’s plenty of middle ground there and it depends what you’re trying to get out of it. I think my process was that I’d transcribe two or three choruses, learn phrases individually and do a lot of dissection of those phrases, but I didn’t personally ever work that hard on being able to play the whole transcription straight through.
Speaking of “what you’re trying to get out of it,” I think it’s worth mentioning that transcription can be a process to achieve different goals. Above I was talking mostly about integrating vocabulary, basically learning stylistic approaches and making them part of your improvisation. Transcription can also be training your ears, working on notation skills, etc.
Recently I’ve read people suggesting to not write down the transcription at all, and try to retain as much as possible by ear. Some even suggest doing it without the guitar – just your voice, and I think that’s a great exercise. Doing it without paper is fantastic for the ear, obviously, and probably helps you remember the solo (or phrase) better. I used to write down all my transcription but after hearing that suggestion multiple times I realized it’s probably superior to try to do it all by ear, at least first, then maybe write down later.
I definitely agree with FatJeff that I think just writing down ten choruses and not doing much with it doesn’t do that much for your playing relative to the amount of time you’re putting in.
Those are my thoughts for now. Sorry if that was more then you were interested in, hope that’s helpful.
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Can you make some example? if you like.... Originally Posted by boatheelmusic
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Jake, I appreciate such a generous post with so many great suggestions for transcribing. I could have quoted your entire entry but instead I'll print it for reference and use it to bookmark my Omnibook. Inspiring. Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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