How do you keep track of chord changes?

**happa95** · 09-20-2011, 12:30 AM

I'm probably super overanalyzing this but I was just wondering how you guys know what you're soloing over. I guess this is a question of improvisation in general. Do you somehow internalize the progressions beforehand? I can figure out arpeggios and even which scales would work well over a certain chord progression but I have no experience yet in the act of actually improvising. Thoughts?

**jazzuki** · 09-20-2011, 05:03 AM

Dont agonise over scale and modes=do as Joe Pass said "learn tunes"even better learn "lines".When your playing at 120bpm and about you havent got time to think about scales.Regarding progressions you will hear them and they then become internalised by usage.

**FatJeff** · 09-20-2011, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by happa95

Do you somehow internalize the progressions beforehand?

Yes.

Here is what I do.

First of all...DON'T JUST GO TO A REALBOOK AND LOOK AT THE LEAD SHEET. You are doing yourself a disservice if you do, and you will never really learn the tune.

Choose the song you are trying to learn. Record that song (and only that song) onto a CD about 50 times, one copy after another. Try to make sure it's a definitive recording of the song. Put the burned CD into your car's player and listen to it on the way to/from work, every day, for a week or two. Don't listen to any other song. Sing along with the melody. Try to sing the root progressions as the choruses go by. Focus on getting all the inflections exactly the same as on the recording. Get into it! Don't worry about the other drivers, who will think you're crazy. When you can sing the song all the way through without having the CD to guide you (like, when you catch yourself singing it to yourself in the shower, or while making love to your girlfriend/wife), you're ready to start playing it.

Now - if you are able to do this - write out the changes yourself, using the recording. Use roman numeral notation so that you're not just memorizing it in one key. You can also write out the melody if you want, although I typically don't, because by this time I know it cold. If you can't write it down yourself, take a look at a lead sheet at this point.

Now just figure it out on the fretboard. This is the easy part.

This sounds like a pain in the ass, and it is, for the first half-dozen tunes you are working on. But once you have a few in your pocket, they become a lot easier.

**Kman** · 09-20-2011, 08:55 AM

As far as keeping track, it takes a while to hear the changes and not get lost so don't get frustrated if you are starting out. Eventually you start to hear progressions better and identify sections, II-V-I's et,. You may try to listen to recordings and try to follow along with a real book. Start with simple tunes and play the songs continuously. Listen to a lot of jazz and it will come together, it just takes time for the ears to develop.

**whatswisdom** · 09-20-2011, 09:18 AM

If you can't sing it, you can't play it. It's that simple. And that holds true even if you can't sing. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Yet it's true. You have to be able to carry the melody at least in your inner voice. But it's best to sing/hum/scat/whistle/or whatever/ in order to make the melody of the tune/line/lick/riff--whatever you're trying to learn, sink in. Again, the motto I have all my students learn is, "If you can't sing it, you can't play it."

**bluewaterpig** · 09-24-2011, 08:06 PM

If you haven't internalized the song, then you haven't really learned it in my opinion. FatJeff gave some great advice. Listen to several different versions of the song over and over again.

Another great way to internalize is to play [B]only[B] the simple 3 note voicings (root, 3rd and 7th) in simple quarter note comping "chunks" for the entire form. This gets the voice leading of the chord tones into your ear quickly. Record yourself doing this and listen to it a bunch.

**Kojo27** · 09-25-2011, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by whatswisdom

If you can't sing it, you can't play it. It's that simple.

Boy you got that one right. And, furthermore, and just as true, the "way" you sing it (with that inner voice, "the mind's ear"), is HOW you'll play it, if you're talking about singing what you're playing, or imagining the thing as you play it. Imagine it vividly and fiery, and your muscles and nerves will do somersaults to make it sound that way.

kj

**JensL** · 09-25-2011, 04:19 AM

Lots of good advice.

Another thought on playing on changes: The written language analogy is quite good. Chords are letters, Progressions are words, songs are sentences.

The advantage in thinking in harmonic blocks is that you can sum up an A-part in 3-4 progressions even if it has a chord or 2 per bar. Like rhythm changes: turnaround turnaround | I7 | IV #IV | turnaround. So it is much easier to remember, and if you can play well on the building blocks or words then playing on the whole piece is quite simple.

The best way to describe the "words" to me is functional harmony, so you have A whole group of progressions that are basically the same f.ex IV #IVdim I which can then be treated more or less the same and will have a lot of the same characteristics. Another advantage is that with this approach you are already working on progressions and not single chords.

You might need the help of a teacher to find the important building blocks that you need to work on.

In improvisation the same analogy could be made with notes/arpeggios and scales/lines.

Jens

Edit: About the "| I7 | IV #IV |" I know it maybe seems wierd but I have no easy way to write this even if it is something that to me really is a unit or building block in a harmony

**EightString** · 09-28-2011, 01:37 PM

Let me add that, if you keep at it, really LISTENING and internalizing the music, you will eventually truly hear and feel the soloing and changes as something beyond the analytical identification of a "ii-V-I-etc", or, "Okay, now I'm going to play some riffs in this particular minor mode because I know it works over these changes."

Once you get beyond this analytical stage, you can be more "in the moment", hearing the various elements it in your head as or before they happens. This is when the magic happens, and you'll find yourself playing much more "musically", and others will notice the difference too.

**EightString** · 09-28-2011, 02:04 PM

I went to a venue recently where they had a big-band jazz orchestra, and I was watching the guitarist.

The guy was a clearly a pro in his comportment and performance, but I noticed that he was REALLY dependent on his charts, even when doing basic comping for common classics like "All of Me" or "Dream a Little Dream".

Then I started noticing his occasional clams. From my vantage, it seemed that he was making mistakes because he was obsessively reading the chart and playing it verbatim, but from time to time, his brain wasn't quite able to execute what he was reading quickly enough.

Now, I've only seen this guy play once, so I could be COMPLETELY off base about what was going on in his head, but it SEEMED like he wasn't feeling and anticipating the changes, but was just executing what was on the page as best as he could.

Maybe he would have made fewer mistakes if he had been "feeling" the changes?

**jazzuki** · 09-28-2011, 02:10 PM

If your in the realms of" Acadamia" and need answers fast i.e." how too" take a look ar Connecting chords with Linear Harmony by Bert Ligon-there is a wealth of information which can be quickly applied from dayone.

**brad4d8** · 09-28-2011, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by EightString

The guy was a clearly a pro in his comportment and performance, but I noticed that he was REALLY dependent on his charts, even when doing basic comping for common classics like "All of Me" or "Dream a Little Dream".

Maybe he was hired for that gig and wasn't familiar with the bands arrangements.
Brad

**EightString** · 09-28-2011, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by brad4d8

Maybe he was hired for that gig and wasn't familiar with the bands arrangements.
Brad

That could very well be true.

But the arrangements were fairly standard throughout the night, and the comping in that band situation was mostly of the quarter-note pulse variety. Nothing all that tricky.

Name a key, any key, and I can comp "All of Me" in my sleep. If necessary, I might occasionally glance at a chart for formatting cues and any odd permutations of intro/outro sections.

But who knows, I only saw the guy play for a couple hours, and he could have been having an off night.

**monk** · 09-28-2011, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by happa95

.......... how you guys know what you're soloing over........... Thoughts?

Learn the songs! If you can't play rhythm or comp the changes from memory, you certainly won't be able to solo.

**jmstritt** · 09-29-2011, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

Yes.

Here is what I do.

First of all...DON'T JUST GO TO A REALBOOK AND LOOK AT THE LEAD SHEET. You are doing yourself a disservice if you do, and you will never really learn the tune.

Choose the song you are trying to learn. Record that song (and only that song) onto a CD about 50 times, one copy after another. Try to make sure it's a definitive recording of the song. Put the burned CD into your car's player and listen to it on the way to/from work, every day, for a week or two. Don't listen to any other song. Sing along with the melody. Try to sing the root progressions as the choruses go by. Focus on getting all the inflections exactly the same as on the recording. Get into it! Don't worry about the other drivers, who will think you're crazy. When you can sing the song all the way through without having the CD to guide you (like, when you catch yourself singing it to yourself in the shower, or while making love to your girlfriend/wife), you're ready to start playing it.

Now - if you are able to do this - write out the changes yourself, using the recording. Use roman numeral notation so that you're not just memorizing it in one key. You can also write out the melody if you want, although I typically don't, because by this time I know it cold. If you can't write it down yourself, take a look at a lead sheet at this point.

Now just figure it out on the fretboard. This is the easy part.

This sounds like a pain in the ass, and it is, for the first half-dozen tunes you are working on. But once you have a few in your pocket, they become a lot easier.

That is sage advice. I don't know how you could could improve on what Fat Jeff said. Very well put!

**brwnhornet59** · 09-29-2011, 12:44 PM

Tons of great advice. Sing the melody, learn the chords and be able to comp them with feeling and anticipation. Record yourself many times, look for mistakes etc.. And practice as many common chord progressions as you can think of in the same way. Of course try and analyse in the practice room your approach's, target notes, your fav leading tones to said notes, etc. Many tunes, as was stated, share a lot of commonalities in their structure. In the end, let your ear guide you to what you think is best. Soon the stuff will come out in autopilot, hopefully freeing your brain up for more and new interesting ways to make your statement. ie...Rhythmic syncopation's, accents, breathing between sentences. Also knowing the stuff in different positions as was stated.

This is stuff you will always work on in one way or another, no matter how advanced you get. IMHO