prelude to a kiss

[P4guitar]

i tried ur ideas, it takes time of course but is working parfectly. when u work on arpeggios you stay in the same position or u move around? i say that coiz sometimes in the same position arpeggios are not so confortable...and the idea of playing one b9 or 5+ etcetera gives the flavor of the song. thanx a lot
g

It doesn't matter when one is developing this technique.

You can stay in one position, play in all positions, or work in just a few favorite positions. It's your choice.

Eventually you will play everything in all positions but that takes time and develops naturally.

The important point is to focus on playing chord-scales/guide tones/arpeggios....however you want to define it.

Of course the most important point is to HAVE FUN every time you pick up the guitar!

[luigi scatto]

yes you are right but when i don not have the clue and do not understand more than fun is frustration... I am playing since a long time and often the results are not those expected. I guess because the gutar is an instrument extreremely complicated and jazz is complex... but both ar erewarding and worth the effort

[gersdal]

I simply play the chord scale with emphasis on the GT's and any appropriate alterations.

For example in Prelude... I would be thinking and playing:
D7: altered scale with b9, b5
G7: same but could use b6 or nat 6 ...or Ab mel min over Db7...or etc.
C7: same but could use b6 or nat 6 ...or Gb mel min over Db7...or etc.
FMaj7: maj or lydian...or etc.

...and I would use this stratagem all the way through the tune. It does not prevent me from using a single scale, say F maj and then add some notes that acknowledge the D, G, or C chords but I don't really like that sound so I don't do it (a personal preference or taste).

Thanks. I would also play in this line at times, and definitely use this type of thinking when I approach the standard building blocks used in jazz when I practice.

Recognizing the standard building blocks aren't difficult IMHO. And I do prefer to be playing a ii-V-I, with the melodic possibility this gives me, rather than playing the Dm in isolation, then the G7, and finally a Cmaj7. Similarly for the other building blocks that are often found in jazz (plain old turnaround and Dom 7th's down the cycle being two important examples).

On the bandstand I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't think too much about theoretical aspects, but try to create interesting improvisations. That's all :-)

Actually I don't like the key center approach because solos based on it almost always seem to have bad notes in them...and there's a reason for that. A key center approach is using a key that's inappropriate for the underlying chord. Trying to superimpose the underlying chord's GT notes in a foreign scale seems very difficult to me.

Agree. That is not what I suggested. Sorry if I indicated anything like that.

Consider this hypothetical: you're playing with your guitar (no other instrument or recordings) and you can only play single lines, but not the melody (head). Does your approach allow another listener to follow the harmonic changes, i.e. do your rules outline the chords in your solo?

Yes - I hope

[P4guitar]

Recognizing the standard building blocks aren't difficult IMHO. And I do prefer to be playing a ii-V-I, with the melodic possibility this gives me, rather than playing the Dm in isolation, then the G7, and finally a Cmaj7. Similarly for the other building blocks that are often found in jazz (plain old turnaround and Dom 7th's down the cycle being two important examples).

I think we're in agreement...mostly. The possible exception is your statement above. It sounds like your approach looks for building blocks, i.e. standard or familiar chord sequences for which you have developed some melodic patterns or a scale that lays over that sequence?

I mostly play the chords in isolation. I don't rely on building blocks although I'm aware of them as they're in all the tunes. With a chord scale approach it doesn't matter if the sequence is familiar or not because the chord is. It is preferable to know what chords are coming next so the line doesn't sound too disjointed but even if the next chord is a surprise, this approach at least ensures the notes are harmonically logical.

That being said, familiarity with the building blocks (ii-V-I, etc.) allows the improviser to develop lines that build up to the same destination point.

[P4guitar]

1. Playing the chords or scales in isolation will most likely lead to a disjointed solo.

2. This is a ballad, and is therefore a fundamentally different beast than Giant Steps.

3. -snip- THis is less important with a tune like Giant Steps which was always more of a harmonic exercise than anything else.

Outside notes can be added for seasoining without having to rely on imposing scale patterns. If you know what you're doing and where you are in the tune, just add the flat 9 instead of thinking about superimposing the melodic minor.

Finally, if you can't craft a meaningful diatonic solo for the tune, your'e not ready to be adding subs and altered scales to it yet. Gotta walk before you can run.

Your's is certainly a common approach but in my opinion it often leads to vanilla solos spiced with some slightly off notes.

To your points above:
1. Nonsense.
2. ditto...unless one uses the key centric stratagems you're advocating.
3. Nonsense again. GS is a beautiful tune. It seems that most people who don't like it can't play it.

[luigi scatto]

I thank you for your suggestions and also for the link to the 3 versions. I would like to send you guys an mp3 with my version and knowing your feeling about my solo. How can I make it in this forum?
Music talks more than a lot of words...
grazie
L,

[luigi scatto]

what is GS, 4thstuning? and what is CST ingeneri? all your cpomments ,ake sense. at the end is if ti is working, if u are generating a meaningful solo or not. I feel the song, it is a beautiful melody and beautiful changes.
I would also u to be more clear what u mean by working off the melody....

[FatJeff]

GS = Giant Steps. A classic Coltrane tune.

CST = Chord-Scale Theory.