The Jimmy Raney Book Study Group

[PickingMyEars]

Wes Montgomery really has that 6:4 feel whenever he plays in 4/4. He doesn't always play the quarter note triplet, but it's there in the background informing his time feel. Same with Bobby Timmons and Oscar Peterson. Almost sounds like pushing the beat.

I think that Dexter has more of a 3:4 feel. Lays back.

Whatever the feel, it's the use of accents to create groupings we are studying here that makes it all swing. Paraphrasing what Jon told me, and I think he mentions it in the book as well.

[RaneyJR]

Wes Montgomery really has that 6:4 feel whenever he plays in 4/4. He doesn't always play the quarter note triplet, but it's there in the background informing his time feel. Same with Bobby Timmons and Oscar Peterson. Almost sounds like pushing the beat.

I think that Dexter has more of a 3:4 feel. Lays back.

Whatever the feel, it's the use of accents to create groupings we are studying here that makes it all swing. Paraphrasing what Jon told me, and I think he mentions it in the book as well.

Yes, definitely old school. Wes, Dexter, Herbie. You have to trust yourself and relax. Re: 6/4. Not sure you remember this thing I sent referencing Doug's laid back thing on groovy walk tempos. I just love his feel on that kind of stuff. For the moment suspend your "correct" notation practices

[PickingMyEars]

Not my best take, but here is figure 2-15. That's the partial solo Jimmy Raney wrote out:

My favorite parts are measures 4 going into 5 and the hints at the melody throughout. Let's keep this book study going! I'm learning a lot about rhythm, even though I always talk about rhythm all over the internet

[CliffR]

I hear the Dee-ya slurs in that. keep it up

Will do!

[RaneyJR]

Not my best take, but here is figure 2-15. That's the partial solo Jimmy Raney wrote out:

My favorite parts are measures 4 going into 5 and the hints at the melody throughout. Let's keep this book study going! I'm learning a lot about rhythm, even though I always talk about rhythm all over the internet

Hi Pick. It's interesting watching your knee patterns. Hard to tell what they are

Anyhow since you are looking to use the 1-click-per bar-metronome technique to improve tempo perception (you caught yourself rushing and fixed), I would just concentrate on tapping LR on beats 1 and 3 (unless you're a converted left hander?). Then try accenting first note of the 3/8 patterns slightly more. Then the displaced phrase slightly more accented (Like the way the tune "Walkin" is with offbeat accents perhaps)

Then when comfortable try it without the metronome and check the recording against the metronome.

Eventually try it imagining that you are Jimmy playing the phrase and it's your solo. Raise your eyebrows and lift your chest a little to breath in and exhale a phrase like he does. I do that sometimes. It's weird but whatever, sue me

[PickingMyEars]

Hi Pick. It's interesting watching your knee patterns. Hard to tell what they are

Anyhow since you are looking to use the 1-click-per bar-metronome technique to improve tempo perception (you caught yourself rushing and fixed), I would just concentrate on tapping LR on beats 1 and 3 (unless you're a converted left hander?). Then try accenting first note of the 3/8 patterns slightly more. Then the displaced phrase slightly more accented (Like the way the tune "Walkin" is with offbeat accents perhaps)

Then when comfortable try it without the metronome and check the recording against the metronome.

Eventually try it imagining that you are Jimmy playing the phrase and it's your solo. Raise your eyebrows and lift your chest a little to breath in and exhale a phrase like he does. I do that sometimes. It's weird but whatever, sue me

The leg pattern is 1 and 3 on one foot and 4 on the other--for 4/4 time signatures. When I am locked in, the pattern is obvious. If there is anything not working in my playing, the foot pattern starts to fall apart. I am still getting 2-15 together and you can tell by looking at my feet

Still working on the accents. When I watched the footage again, I noticed that my picking arm was very stiff. Need to relax more and let gravity do its job with the downstrokes. Didn't want to derail the thread with picking technique, just a noticing. All great specific and constructive feedback as usual, Jon!

Cliff and Jon, do we want to set "soft deadlines" to get through more of the book? As a teacher, I really like the idea of "spiral review." As in, each exercise doesn't need to be perfect. From Google: Spiral review is an educational strategy that reinforces learning by frequently revisiting previously taught concepts throughout the school year, rather than teaching a topic once and moving on. Since the next chapter deals with polyrhythms and syncopation as well as other melodic material, could we launch into Chapter 3 next week? Every successive figure builds on the next, but the rhythmic and melodic skills help address personal shortfalls from the previous. I want to keep the momentum going...

[CliffR]

Cliff and Jon, do we want to set "soft deadlines" to get through more of the book? As a teacher, I really like the idea of "spiral review." As in, each exercise doesn't need to be perfect. From Google: Spiral review is an educational strategy that reinforces learning by frequently revisiting previously taught concepts throughout the school year, rather than teaching a topic once and moving on. Since the next chapter deals with polyrhythms and syncopation as well as other melodic material, could we launch into Chapter 3 next week? Every successive figure builds on the next, but the rhythmic and melodic skills help address personal shortfalls from the previous. I want to keep the momentum going...

Not sure if we're going to proceed at the same pace, but I like the idea of moving on before reaching perfection. Ha ha. I was intending to start looking into chapter 3 this weekend anyway.

[RaneyJR]

Spiral review is an educational strategy that reinforces learning by frequently revisiting previously taught concepts throughout the school year, rather than teaching a topic once and moving

Sure put educational theory through trial by fire ...

[PickingMyEars]

Sure put educational theory through trial by fire ...

I'm applying all the feedback as I practice those figures and internalize them all.

Just didn't want to get into multiple video posts to perfect my playing and satisfy my own ego is all. Didn't want to slow down the book study. Honestly, I haven't gotten this deep into a book since the Barry Galbraith study series.

Excited to learn more and get closer to the bebop I'm chasing. I think I can speak for Cliff as well, but we really appreciate the guidance and feedback thus far with the book and our playing

[RaneyJR]

I'm applying all the feedback as I practice those figures and internalize them all.

Just didn't want to get into multiple video posts to perfect my playing and satisfy my own ego is all. Didn't want to slow down the book study. Honestly, I haven't gotten this deep into a book since the Barry Galbraith study series.

Excited to learn more and get closer to the bebop I'm chasing. I think I can speak for Cliff as well, but we really appreciate the guidance and feedback thus far with the book and our playing

Glad I'm able to help. Keep pluggin away

[CliffR]

I'm curious about the description of the enclosures in Fig 3-8 as '7-3' enclosures. I get that they're both enclosing the thirds, but I'm not clear on the '7' part.

[RaneyJR]

I'm curious about the description of the enclosures in Fig 3-8 as '7-3' enclosures. I get that they're both enclosing the thirds, but I'm not clear on the '7' part.

Hi Cliff, Technically, in a way you're right if just viewing from V7, however I (we) were viewing from the II-V perspective where the 7th of the II moves to the 3rd of the V chord

In a way I think it is more comprehensive especially when viewing the entire progression (assuming it happens)

II - V - I

Where you track each voice as moving by the math of '4" which is governed by root movement in II - V - I

1 - 1 - 1
3 - 7 - 3
5 - 9 - 5
7- 3 - 7
9- 13 - 9

Does this make more sense, now?

[CliffR]

Hi Cliff, Technically, in a way you're right if just viewing from V7, however I (we) were viewing from the II-V perspective where the 7th of the II moves to the 3rd of the V chord

In a way I think it is more comprehensive especially when viewing the entire progression (assuming it happens)

II - V - I

Where you track each voice as moving by the math of '4" which is governed by root movement in II - V - I

1 - 1 - 1
3 - 7 - 3
5 - 9 - 5
7- 3 - 7
9- 13 - 9

Does this make more sense, now?

It does, thanks for the explanation!

[RaneyJR]

It does, thanks for the explanation!

Another thing I like to think about is hearing/singing the moving voices. I think it helps plant the harmonic movement in the periphery as you improvise.

When you sing the harmony notes I generally think of this rule:

• The 3rd becomes the 7th of the next chord
• The 7th moves to the 3rd of the next chord

Above and beyond that

The other voices often follow similar rules of movement or move by 1/2 steps if the total motion between chord voices is whole step
(e.g the 9th of D- can move down to b13 of G7 and then that moves to 9th of Cmaj9). The 7th can resolve to 6 on tonic because it is more "restful"

[CliffR]

Another thing I like to think about is hearing/singing the moving voices. I think it helps plant the harmonic movement in the periphery as you improvise.

When you sing the harmony notes I generally think of this rule:

• The 3rd becomes the 7th of the next chord
• The 7th moves to the 3rd of the next chord

Above and beyond that

The other voices often follow similar rules of movement or move by 1/2 steps if the total motion between chord voices is whole step
(e.g the 9th of D- can move down to b13 of G7 and then that moves to 9th of Cmaj9). The 7th can resolve to 6 on tonic because it is more "restful"

Thanks! I just tried playing Dm9 to G7b13 to Cmaj9, and it does indeed sound lovely. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Would that be a move from F (7th of G) to A (6th of C) if we're in the key of C?

(I'd previously only thought of enclosures as ornamentations, not as harmonic movements in their own right. Quite an eye opener )

[RaneyJR]

... I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Would that be a move from F (7th of G) to A (6th of C) if we're in the key of C?

I think you grabbed hold of the wrong voice

The voice I'm thinking of is the C (7th of D-7) - moves to B (3rd of G7) which becomea the 7th of Cmaj7. But the B against C is a maj 7th is a slight dissonance that often resolves to the A of C6 (a la Barry Harris)

(I'd previously only thought of enclosures as ornamentations, not as harmonic movements in their own right. Quite an eye opener )

I think of enclosures as melodic devices that "melodicize" (eek another made up word) harmony.

But I don't think that referring to them as ornamentation is technically wrong. Another term for ornamentation is embellishment I suppose. But again this centers around something to - at it's heart - feels like adding more elaboration to harmony.

Like for example a Bach ornament (imagine in free 16ths) G F E F G F E F E over a G7 to C harmony. It's anchored over the motion of the G moving down to 3rd of the C in elaboration.

[Mick-7]

I think of enclosures as melodic devices that "melodicize" (eek another made up word) harmony.

The word exists but not your spelling of it: MELODIZE Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

[RaneyJR]

The word exists but not your spelling of it: MELODIZE Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

yeah, I know... I'm just pulling a Roger Sessions. He's the one who invented the term, tonicization which has come into the vernacular from his noted book, Harmonic Practice

[Mick-7]

yeah, I know... I'm just pulling a Roger Sessions. He's the one who invented the term, tonicization which has come into the vernacular from his noted book, Harmonic Practice

It has a completely different meaning to a bartender though.....

Q. "Why did you serve me this, I did not ask for a gin and tonic?"

A. "Oh, I heard you say you're a fan of tonicization!"

[RaneyJR]

It has a completely different meaning to a bartender though.....

Q. "Why did you serve me this, I did not ask for a gin and tonic?"

A. "Oh, I heard you say you're a fan of tonicization!"

[Mick-7]

Jon, I'm curious, did you ever play other instruments besides the piano?

[RaneyJR]

Not really. It was mostly situational that I ended up playing piano. When I was in high school it was in the house.
I started fooling around with it, then in earnest by college. My brother already moved out so no guitar there.

I remember father showed me the ukelele when I was teen because it was up in the attic fooling with that (I think it was my grandmothers)
He showed me a round midnite solo on it - of all things lol. Then he taught me a few chords on guitar.
But given 2 stellar guitarists in the family no f'ing way I was pursuing that.

When I was in college I dabbled in Electric bass. For example I sat in with the band ensemble because they had no one.

But I have no idea how to play any of these instruments now

Why do you ask?

[Mick-7]

Not really. It was mostly situational that I ended up playing piano. When I was in high school it was in the house.
I started fooling around with it, then in earnest by college. My brother already moved out so no guitar there.

I remember father showed me the ukelele when I was teen because it was up in the attic fooling with that (I think it was my grandmothers)
He showed me a round midnite solo on it - of all things lol. Then he taught me a few chords on guitar.
But given 2 stellar guitarists in the family no f'ing way I was pursuing that.

When I was in college I dabbled in Electric bass. For example I sat in with the band ensemble because they had no one.

But I have no idea how to play any of these instruments now

Why do you ask?

Just curious, seeing as you were surrounded by string players.

[CliffR]

I think you grabbed hold of the wrong voice

The voice I'm thinking of is the C (7th of D-7) - moves to B (3rd of G7) which becomea the 7th of Cmaj7. But the B against C is a maj 7th is a slight dissonance that often resolves to the A of C6 (a la Barry Harris)



I think of enclosures as melodic devices that "melodicize" (eek another made up word) harmony.

But I don't think that referring to them as ornamentation is technically wrong. Another term for ornamentation is embellishment I suppose. But again this centers around something to - at it's heart - feels like adding more elaboration to harmony.

Like for example a Bach ornament (imagine in free 16ths) G F E F G F E F E over a G7 to C harmony. It's anchored over the motion of the G moving down to 3rd of the C in elaboration.

Got it - thanks!

[RaneyJR]

Pretty quiet around here. Has the book project been put to bed?