Improvising over Dm9 - Bb9#11 - G/A-A+7 progression?

[Joe Passé]

A backing track with this progression popped up and I was at a loss.

I don't see a unifying scale, should I look at a different scale for each chord? Try to find the most related scales? Look at the arpeggios and add passing notes?

I understand basic chord/scale theory, and have a clue when improvising over the blues or more diatonic jazz progressions, but I need some help wrapping my head around this.

[Jimmy Mack]

Nice track to relax with, kick back and just work the fingers.
I had a fun time with: Dm scales and intervals, and D harmonic minor, F Maj scales and intervals, and arpeggios, incl: Bb in the key of F, also the Dm pentatonic scales.
I'm no expert but I'm learning to get around much better. I found Rich Severson's tutorial Video on Autumn Leaves in Em (soloing) to be extremely helpful and easy to grasp. The video you posted is very similar in its key center, only it's in Dm.

I hope this makes a correct assessment.

[Jimmy Mack]

Re-reading your post, I think you are close to finding the solution(s). Try to avoid a "scale for each chord" approach - it's too much thinking and mechanics for a smooth jazz track like this one. Relax, have fun and make music with it, in your own way and "voice".

[Jimmy Mack]

Also finding the key of C useful, and Am: scales and arpeggios, B and Bb useful as passing tones. The title indicates the progression is in Am.

[brent.h]

Bb9#11 is an E augmented triad with a Bb as the bass. I'd just think E7. The important note to hit here is G#.

For A7, I'd just play A7. The important note to hit here is C#.

The rest of the time, just use C major.

[Joe Passé]

The Rich Severson video on Autumn Leaves piqued my interest. But when I look on youtube he has like 10+ autumn leaves videos. Most are short.

Was it this one?

[Joe Passé]

Re-reading your post, I think you are close to finding the solution(s). Try to avoid a "scale for each chord" approach - it's too much thinking and mechanics for a smooth jazz track like this one. Relax, have fun and make music with it, in your own way and "voice".

Well, a single scale or two would simplify things for me. It is too much thinking as I know my major and pentatonic scales in all positions, but not harmonic minor or altered. Same for arpeggios. I know the basic (6th, 7th, m7th, dom) arpeggios, but not the altered ones.

On the other hand, trying to find notes on the fly isn't working either, so I need to bridge the gap.

I was hoping there was an underlying pattern that I wasn't grasping. I did work out some scales for each chord in the hopes of seeing a way to simplify. I'm still thinking about that:

Dm9: Dorian -> D E F G A B C D
Arpeggio: D F A C E

Bb9#11: Bb Lydian Dominant -> Bb C D E F G Ab Bb
Arpeggio: Bb D F Ab C E

G/A: G Mixolydian -> G A B C D E F G
Arpeggio: A G B D

A7#5: A altered -> A Bb C Db Eb F G A
Arpeggio: A C#/Db E#/F G

[Joe Passé]

Also finding the key of C useful, and Am: scales and arpeggios, B and Bb useful as passing tones. The title indicates the progression is in Am.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I'd like to better understand how you determined the key.

Why do you say the progression appears to be in Am rather than C or D dorian?

To me the Dm9 could be in Am, as could the G/A. But the Bb9#11 has a Bb and an Ab, and the A7#5 has altered notes as well. Do the alterered notes not count because they are "altered" and non-diatonic?

[Joe Passé]

Bb9#11 is an E augmented triad with a Bb as the bass. I'd just think E7. The important note to hit here is G#.

For A7, I'd just play A7. The important note to hit here is C#.

The rest of the time, just use C major.

I'm trying to work through this.

Bb9#11 -> Bb D F Ab C E

E augmented/Bb -> Bb E G#/Ab C/B#

So it looks like E+/Bb gives the root, the #4, the 7 and the 9. The "colorful" notes.

I can just "Neil Young" the C# during the A section!

[joe2758]

I don't have a guitar here, but my first try would be E pentatonic, then a blues note on the Bb chord, then some kind of A7 stuff

[Joe Passé]

I'll have to think about that a bit. I do hear G/A more like an Asus chord.

[joe2758]

The reason for my choice of the smooth jazz pentatonic is just the style of the track...I mean it's not jazz

Edit: I just saw it's called "smooth jazz" in the title haha

[joe2758]

I'll have to think about that a bit. I do hear G/A more like an Asus chord.

sure, just play the D

[pamosmusic]

Well, a single scale or two would simplify things for me. It is too much thinking as I know my major and pentatonic scales in all positions, but not harmonic minor or altered. Same for arpeggios. I know the basic (6th, 7th, m7th, dom) arpeggios, but not the altered ones.

On the other hand, trying to find notes on the fly isn't working either, so I need to bridge the gap.

I was hoping there was an underlying pattern that I wasn't grasping. I did work out some scales for each chord in the hopes of seeing a way to simplify. I'm still thinking about that:

Not really how playing changes usually works. Outline the chord changes, find voice-leading.

So outlining the changes in general ... but also you have a move from A natural to Ab in the second bar, then back in the next. E, E, D, C# one change at a time. A, Ab, G, G ...

So you can take some of these lines and use them to help you move through the changes. Like that first line ...

Dm over the Dm.
lower the Ab for Ddim over the Bb7
Then back to the A for maybe D over the G/A
Then still the A for A+ or something over the A+7

So you can start playing around with that voice-leading and see what you come up with.

[pamosmusic]

If you must have a scale, then maaaaaaaybe Dm 6/dim

D E F G A Bb B C# … but I would caution you that it won’t be easier than just living with the changes a bit.

[joe2758]

Outline the chord changes, find voice-leading.

Or if your voice changes you could easily sing like Barry White to this track

[joe2758]

"D E F G A Bb B C#"

So Peter, I guess you might say...I was right with the E blues scale? Please?

[pamosmusic]

"D E F G A Bb B C#"

So Peter, I guess you might say...I was right with the E blues scale?

Play it and you tell me.

[brent.h]

Bb9#11 -> Bb D F Ab C E

This chord is quite a special one to me.

One of the earliest known recordings that feature this kind of chord is Duke Ellington's Take The 'A' Train.

On YouTube, this chord is called 'The Blackadder Chord'. It's used heavily in Japanese music, jazz, anime openings.

A chord like Bb9#11 is usually played like this:

(1st string) X
(2nd string) 5 - this is the #11
(3rd string) 5 - this is the 9th
(4th string) 6 - this is the 7th
(5th string) X
(6th string) 6 - this is the root

Lots of times, this chord omits the 3rd. Personally, I think/use this chord to get a specific, nostalgic sound that I want when I comp or when I'm messing about with the guitar on my own.

But in the heat of the moment while improvising at a jam session, I would see Bb9#11 as a tritone substitute for E augmented or E7, therefore, I simplify and go for E7. I do this because it's easier to connect to the preceding chord (D-9) in that backing track progression you shared.

[Joe Passé]

This chord is quite a special one to me.

One of the earliest known recordings that feature this kind of chord is Duke Ellington's Take The 'A' Train.

On YouTube, this chord is called 'The Blackadder Chord'. It's used heavily in Japanese music, jazz, anime openings.

A chord like Bb9#11 is usually played like this:

(1st string) X
(2nd string) 5 - this is the #11
(3rd string) 5 - this is the 9th
(4th string) 6 - this is the 7th
(5th string) X
(6th string) 6 - this is the root

Lots of times, this chord omits the 3rd. Personally, I think/use this chord to get a specific, nostalgic sound that I want when I comp or when I'm messing about with the guitar on my own.

But in the heat of the moment while improvising at a jam session, I would see Bb9#11 as a tritone substitute for E augmented or E7, therefore, I simplify and go for E7. I do this because it's easier to connect to the preceding chord (D-9) in that backing track progression you shared.

Interesting. That's one of the chord voicings I like to use (I'm much better with the chord shapes than the underlying scales).

I think of that shape as a 7b5. I know that enharmonically a b5 is a #4, and that technically a 7#4 chord has a 5th note in it, but I still often am not sure whether to call that chord a 7b5 or 7#11 based on the context (not here but in other progressions). That's probably a question for another thread.

[brent.h]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about enharmonic names. The important thing is that your ear knows the sound through and through.

Btw, iirc, this is one of the sounds Wes Montgomery uses when he plays the head of Four on Six.

[joe2758]

I think I remember hearing Jimmy Bruno tell a story about a player (not sure if guitar or piano) was playing really cool harmony, and he goes up to him after and said he liked it or whatever. The player said "I just play a b5 on every chord." Every chord not just the dominants. Isn't that interesting?

ex: Dmin7b5 to G7b5 to C#11

[Mick-7]

Common scales would be C major & C harmonic major (add b6th = Ab). You could think of Bb9#11 & E7#9 as G7b9/#9 (dim.7th chords) and G/A as A9sus, resolving to A7#5 (V7 of IIm7).

F centered scales will work too: F major/lydian for Dm7 | F melodic or harmonic minor for Bb7#11 | F major/lydian for G/A | F major/lydian or harmonic major (b6th = C#/ Db) for A7#5.

But as Peter said, your first step should be arpeggiating the chords so you can hear and negotiate the chord changes.

The progression has a suspended/stacked 4ths chords vibe, this sort of thing:

| x-x-3-4-5-x | > | x-x-2-2-3-x | > | x-x-3-2-2-x | > | x-x-2-2-3-x |

[rpjazzguitar]

For soloing, I'd translate this progression to Fmaj7 Fmelmin Em A7. Understanding that a couple of adjustments are required.

For the second chord: since all melmin chords are the same chord per Mark Levine, all you need to do, as Peter pointed out, is flat the A. The resulting chord could be seen as Fminmaj7. The bass player might not agree with the naming of these chords but the solo won't have clams in that bar. Bb7#11 is part of Fmelmin, in Levine's view, which, I might add, works.

G/A and A7+ can be viewed in various ways, but at its heart it looks like a ii V to me. The D wants to move to C#. The A7+ has an F that you have to account for somehow. If you think of G/A as Em9/A then the F# moves to F or the E moves to F.

The idea isn't to specify every note. Rather, it's to get close enough that you can adjust by ear.

So, you could think, F, Fm, and then a ii V in Dm. Or, at the risk of oversimplying, playing F, then Fm, then F again. If you hear a clam, play a different note.

[Dean_G]

It seems to me an Am7 vamp thing. Dm7 is iv going to Bb7#11 (or E7 )the V7 To Am7 voiced like A9sus but actually Am7 then A7#5 leads back to Dm 9. I'd play in Am blues idiom hitting the leading tones where my ear tells me, G# in Bb7 - to Am and C# in A7 back to Dm 9. And as stated earlier Cmajor scale pretty much covers it.