Improvising over Dm9 - Bb9#11 - G/A-A+7 progression?

[ragman1]

Thanks. I did google it but didn't get your impressive results. I'll have a listen. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong :-)

I didn't answer your thing about my own playing. First, I've never claimed to be a jazz guitarist. I just play the music as I know how. So, yes, I'm self-taught but that should be clarified. I didn't work it out in isolation, that would be near impossible. On the contrary, I looked at every conceivable source and most good sources agree with each other. In other words, it's what might be called generally accepted knowledge.

That's what I use and I don't even claim it's jazz. It's certainly not bebop. Unfortunately I don't 'hear' bebop so I can't really produce it. But I play jazz tunes and also make up my own. But I like what I do, I find it works for me. Whether others like it I don't know. Most jazzers don't seem to but each to their own.

I've never liked the triads idea, not by themselves anyway. I actually use them here and there but not much. But the inference is, as far as I can make out, that one can get through a whole tune using the triad + another note. It's not certain which triad one should be using, nor which other note. But the feeling I get from it is one of restriction. I don't like being limited to four notes. it's too narrow. I prefer scales from which notes can be taken to make lines.

Hope that answers something. So now I'll investigate Jordan's albums

[ragman1]

Ah, I don't do Facebook. Not a good start.

[ragman1]

Neither did this one.



Keeps going...

[ragman1]

Ah! 'This City' is on Spotify. Listening now. Dated 2017. Was that before or after he started with the triads idea?

[ragman1]

I've listened. No comment. Sorry, it's a sound-wash. Was the guitar going through a synth? Something like that. Perhaps others will like it more.

His playing on Soundcloud was far more impressive. There was some very good guitar there. Mind you, it was all dated 9-12 years ago. And I'm still not a fan of this triads stuff.

Since Christian suggested it, perhaps he'd like to dash off a chorus or two and show us how it works. It's not a challenge, it's a request for interest's sake.

I strongly suspect the OP would like to hear it too.

[Clausstrom]

The "triads stuff" is in my understanding (and I've taken lessons from Jordan) not to be understood as playing a triad+one note exclusively. You connect it all with scale notes, sometimes other extensions or triad pairs, embellishments and chromatic enclosures. So you can't really necessarily hear the approach as "the triad" thing, but rather its a framework for using extensions and using certain colours of chords.

Personally I LOVE G+4 on Am(Am11/9), F+b6 on A7(A7#9b13) and Eb+#4 on A7(A7b9#11). If someone told to just play "altered scale" it would never amount to the same!

This question may be inappropriate and I apologize for asking, but are you on the spectrum?

[Christian Miller]

The "triads stuff" is in my understanding (and I've taken lessons from Jordan) not to be understood as playing a triad+one note exclusively. You connect it all with scale notes, sometimes other extensions or triad pairs, embellishments and chromatic enclosures. So you can't really necessarily hear the approach as "the triad" thing, but rather its a framework for using extensions and using certain colours of chords.

Personally I LOVE G+4 on Am(Am11/9), F+b6 on A7(A7#9b13) and Eb+#4 on A7(A7b9#11). If someone told to just play "altered scale" it would never amount to the same!

This question may be inappropriate and I apologize for asking, but are you on the spectrum?

No he’s just rude. I know plenty of people on the spectrum who manage not to be.

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[Christian Miller]

I've listened. No comment. Sorry, it's a sound-wash. Was the guitar going through a synth? Something like that. Perhaps others will like it more.

His playing on Soundcloud was far more impressive. There was some very good guitar there. Mind you, it was all dated 9-12 years ago. And I'm still not a fan of this triads stuff.

Since Christian suggested it, perhaps he'd like to dash off a chorus or two and show us how it works. It's not a challenge, it's a request for interest's sake.

I strongly suspect the OP would like to hear it too.

TBH I'm not sure it would help you.

[ragman1]

The "triads stuff" is in my understanding (and I've taken lessons from Jordan) not to be understood as playing a triad+one note exclusively. You connect it all with scale notes, sometimes other extensions or triad pairs, embellishments and chromatic enclosures. So you can't really necessarily hear the approach as "the triad" thing, but rather its a framework for using extensions and using certain colours of chords.

Yes, I know, I've seen all this before.

Personally I LOVE G+4 on Am(Am11/9), F+b6 on A7(A7#9b13) and Eb+#4 on A7(A7b9#11). If someone told to just play "altered scale" it would never amount to the same!

So demo it. I've done my demo a few posts back. If you won't do it for me, do it for Joe Passé, the OP. It's his thread, his question here.

are you on the spectrum?

Possibly, but I don't think so. I'm more psychopathic :-)

[ragman1]

TBH I'm not sure it would help you.

You're absolutely right, not that I was looking for help.

So same request. Forget me, do it for the OP. He's probably quite new to it.

[pamosmusic]

Please stop

[ragman1]

Ok. Well, here's a good one. You'll love this :-)

[pamosmusic]

By this point, you have to know I’m not listening to your posts?

[Clausstrom]

You're absolutely right, not that I was looking for help.

So same request. Forget me, do it for the OP. He's probably quite new to it.

Only because you asked so nicely. Mainly Am/4, C/b6, G/4 and Bbm/2

[ragman1]

By this point, you have to know I’m not listening to your posts?

As you like, Pete. Free country, etc :-)

[ragman1]

Mainly Am/4, C/b6, G/4 and Bbm/2

Oh, well done. I liked a lot of that, there's some nice sounds in there. Thanks.

I think the point is we all have our preferred ways of doing things. It's what works for us and there's nothing wrong with that.

[pauln]

I was in a band doing things like this about ten years ago. This loop would be thought of as just an intro vamp into a relaxed tune that then moves on into more smooth progression development of the tune proper.

The foundation is simple...
Think of the bass hopping 1 "1" 5 5

i11
"I7sus2b5" (IIaug/7)
v11
V7#5 (Vaug/7)

If you lead the V7#5 as Vaug/7 into the i11 so that the progression shifts to " 5 1 1 5" like this

x 10 11 10 10 x | 10 z 10 9 8 x
x 5 6 5 5 x | 5 x 5 4 3 x

it's easy to see what's happening. After foundation you can add the Bb, Db, and Eb stuff

sparse
xx355x
xx655x
xx543x
xx566x

lush
(D)ii11 - F Lydian Augmented
(D)I9b5 - Bb Lydian Dominant
(A)v11 - C Lydian Augmented
(A)V7#5 - Eb Lydian Dominant

[ragman1]

(D)ii11 - F Lydian Augmented
(D)I9b5 - Bb Lydian Dominant
(A)v11 - C Lydian Augmented
(A)V7#5 - Eb Lydian Dominant

I'm all for different sounds. Can we just clarify this a bit? I'll use the chord names on the original loop.

(D)ii11 - F Lydian Augmented - Does that mean using D mel m over the Dm9?

(D)I9b5 - Bb Lydian Dominant - ----------------------------- F mel m over the Bb9#11?

(A)v11 - C Lydian Augmented - ----------------------------- A mel m over the G/A?

(A)V7#5 - Eb Lydian Dominant - ---------------------------- Bb mel m over the A7#5?


Or do you mean something completely different?

[pauln]

If those are the right modes of MM, yes; although to make them sound right I'm further displacing the assignment of the tonic down a tritone for what I'm calling Lyd Aug, so the "real" name may be once removed again... if so I'm sorry, I play by ear and try to name things after.

[Christian Miller]

Nah boss

D-9(maj7) - A mixolydian b6
Bb7#11 - C mixolydian b6
G/A - G Lydian Dominant
A7b13 - F mixolydian b6


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[mr. beaumont]

The key to playing modal over a progression like this is to make sure you fit in every note of the scale over each chord, twice if you can. Make sure the audience knows how hard you've practiced.

[joe2758]

I had an assignment once which was to establish a mode with as few notes as possible

So D Dorian would need at least DEFB
C maj would need CEFB
E phryg would need EFGB

etc. it was a cool exercise to get their individual characters

[Christian Miller]

The key to playing modal over a progression like this is to make sure you fit in every note of the scale over each chord, twice if you can. Make sure the audience knows how hard you've practiced.

That’s what jazz is


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[ragman1]

If those are the right modes of MM, yes; although to make them sound right I'm further displacing the assignment of the tonic down a tritone for what I'm calling Lyd Aug, so the "real" name may be once removed again... if so I'm sorry, I play by ear and try to name things after.

Well, I don't pretend to understand some of what you wrote but the mel m's that I think you mean are the ones generally accepted and that I use myself with one exception. I haven't tried it out yet but you said A mel m over the G/A. I see that as a G chord, not an A chord, so the G# may be suspect but the F# would be okay.

[mr. beaumont]

That’s what jazz is


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It's also important that your facial expression shows that it's difficult, but you are enjoying it. A half-smile, half grimace.