Jazz Vocabulary

[Tal_175]

The development of jazz teaching has caused that musicians do not wander in the fog and play more consciously.

There is something inherently nerdy about wanting to learn an instrument except for guitar. That's why non-guitar students learn to read music, learn to play scales in 3rds, 4ths, triad inversions etc. You can't do that with guitar students. You have to make them feel like rock stars all the time or they'll lose focus. Quick results are needed to satisfy the image conscious incentives. They wanted to learn guitar because the world has promised them that one day they'll be on the stage playing for fans throwing bras at them. So you have to feed them with one cool lick after another. Nerds are ostracized minorities in the guitar world.

[pamosmusic]

There is something inherently nerdy about wanting to learn an instrument except for guitar. That's why non-guitar students learn how to read, learn to play scales in 3rds, 4ths, triad inversions etc. You can't do that with guitar students. You have to make them feel like rock stars all the time or they'll lose focus. Quick results are needed to satisfy the image conscious incentives. They wanted to learn guitar because the world has promised them that one they they'll be on the stage playing for girls throwing bra's at them. So you have to feed them with one cool lick after another. Nerds are ostracized minorities in the guitar world.

lol … remind me again how many students you had this week?

[joe2758]

Nerds are ostracized minorities in the guitar world.

I was going to say they are only ostracized if they are doing the nerd activities to a degree that keeps them from practicing and improving. But, then I remembered the members here whom are nerds and can play VERY well and still get sh*t about nerding out

[GuyBoden]

The world has promised them that they'll be on the stage playing for girls throwing bra's at them.

Yes please...........................

[Tal_175]

lol … remind me again how many students you had this week?

The right amount that would keep me sane.
Obviously it was a bit tongue in cheek post. I was thinking about the younger learners (including my nephew who is in band now). I've been people learning guitar all my life.

[Tal_175]

Yes please...........................

I am utterly disappointed with the world's inability to deliver on its promises.

[AllanAllen]

Bro, you don't need to project so hard. You are a guitar nerd, you are using a defunct internet platform to talk about jazz guitar. That's 2 layers for nerdy niche.

[pamosmusic]

The right amount that would keep me sane.
Obviously it was a bit tongue in cheek post. I was thinking about the younger learners (including my niece who is in band now). I've been people learning guitar all my life.

Not really an answer. And also you’re going to want to read that post back to see why having it be about your niece doesn’t make it a less weird thing to say

[Tal_175]

Not really an answer. And also you’re going to want to read that post back to see why having it be about your niece doesn’t make it a less weird thing to say

Oh it wasn't about my nephew (only). I meant nephew not niece. Sorry for the broken English.

[GuyBoden]

Fretboard knowledge to me is not a finite thing. Because there are always new songs and pieces to learn which obviously means finding new things to do on the fretboard, mapping it out in new ways.

It's endless.

I remember Allan Holdsworth stating that he saw the notes he needed light up on the whole fretboard. (Other players have said this too.)

[grahambop]

I started with classical guitar at age 12 and only got into the rock guitar bra-throwing fantasy phase a few years later.

So I guess I'm a nerd!

[Tal_175]

I remember Allan Holdsworth stating that he saw the notes he needed light up on the whole fretboard. (Other players have said this too.)

I think George Benson also said it.

[joe2758]

I started with classical guitar at age 12 and only got into the rock guitar bra-throwing fantasy phase a few years later.

So I guess I'm a nerd!

When I was in music school for classical guitar I was sitting in a sort of common area doing some homework. There was a lady there mid to late 60s who said "you're one of the music students aren't you" with a huge beaming smile, it was just a guess I didn't have my guitar. I said yes, and she let a sort of sentimental sigh and looked up toward the ceiling and said "that is SO wonderful, I know you MUST play violin." I said "no mam, guitar." and she gave me the most disappointed, partly angry even, look as if I had been posing as something I wasn't.

[Basshead]

Ok lets focus on vocabulary for a second, Im learning this billies bounce melody and solo, bit a bit, singing every short phrase and then Im focusing on comping this tune too, theres some Benson transcription out there with great ideas too. So the question is, will you learn just one phrase per day and play it in different keys or try to learn first the whole solo and analyze which ideas, passing tones, enclosures Parker is using, whats your method?

[joe2758]

The point of learning a whole solo is for timing and technique practice, for vocabulary do one phrase at a time.

either way you could learn the whole thing and divided up after or, or learning the phrases and put it together after.

[Tal_175]

Ok lets focus on vocabulary for a second, Im learning this billies bounce melody and solo, bit a bit, singing every short phrase and then Im focusing on comping this tune too, theres some Benson transcription out there with great ideas too. So the question is, will you learn just one phrase per day and play it in different keys or try to learn first the whole solo and analyze which ideas, passing tones, enclosures Parker is using, whats your method?

You have to be a special kind of genius to be able to learn one phrase a day in a way that you can retain it and use them during performances. The rate is a lot slower for most of us. People have different approaches. Some people keep a lick library and work on integrating the licks by inserting them into solos. Those with nerdier tendencies may analyze the lick in terms of its basic building blocks (arpeggios, passing notes, chromaticism) and apply it to every scale degree (like go up an arpeggio, come down scale with a chromatic note in the end etc.).

[pamosmusic]

The point of learning a whole solo is for timing and technique practice, for vocabulary do one phrase at a time.

either way you could learn the whole thing and divided up after or, or learning the phrases and put it together after.

I would mostly agree with this.

You have to be a special kind of genius to be able to learn one phrase a day in a way that you can retain it and use them during performances. The rate is a lot slower for most of us.

and this

[AllanAllen]

Ok lets focus on vocabulary for a second, Im learning this billies bounce melody and solo, bit a bit, singing every short phrase and then Im focusing on comping this tune too, theres some Benson transcription out there with great ideas too. So the question is, will you learn just one phrase per day and play it in different keys or try to learn first the whole solo and analyze which ideas, passing tones, enclosures Parker is using, whats your method?

You are doing too much too fast. Learn just the head, then grab phrases from it. 12 bars of Parker is plenty of vocabulary. When you learn 3-4 of his heads you'll see things repeating.

Reading a head and 2 solos, you'll just be turning gears and not retaining anything. Probably good for sight reading exercise, but not for growing your vocab.

Transcribe by ear, you are just reading someone else's homework with these youtube transcriptions.

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, it sounds like you might be trying to fit a year's worth of work into a few weeks.

Which, means you're excited about it. Which is great.

But put me down as a recommender of "going deeper with fewer things" rather than amassing phrases each day.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, it sounds like you might be trying to fit a year's worth of work into a few weeks.

Which, means you're excited about it. Which is great.

But put me down as a recommender of "going deeper with fewer things" rather than amassing phrases each day.

Yeah I think for most folks what you and Tal describe is the move. One line for a few days, a week, two weeks, whatever. Really take it apart, etc.

I'm also a big fan of osmosis ... like learning a solo really really well but not really making much conscious effort to absorb the individual vocabulary. That also means spending maybe a month on a solo.

In both cases, you probably won't see the vocabulary in your playing for a while after you leave it behind. And you probably won't see it verbatim ever.

It's just a slow and imprecise process. Fortunately, it happens to be fun.

[Basshead]

Great advice guys but hey, I used to be a pro musician, I started when I was 19 yo and I had to learn 64 songs in two weeks and then 3 gigs in a row in one weekend. Right now if I friend call me cause he might have a problem with a bass player I need to learn 9 Gospel songs on bass for next week, thats hard

So yeah not sure if its too much but I get it, the only difference that I see here is that I like to play it bit by bit, slowly, metronome, sing it, put it in different keys and fingers but I dont really memorize it in order to play it live, I like to absorb it and analyze it but not by heart, maybe thats my mistake...???

[mr. beaumont]

I like to absorb it and analyze it but not by heart, maybe thats my mistake...???

No, I actually think that's fine. I like to think of licks and lines as more "malleable," they're ideas, not set in stone. I think you get more mileage out of them that way.

[joe2758]

I think the advice given here is to take it slow because building vocabulary involves long term memory, as where preparing for a gig quickly probably won't. Do you remember the gospel songs still?

[Tal_175]

I think the advice given here is to take it slow because building vocabulary involves long term memory, as where preparing for a gig quickly probably won't. Do you remember the gospel songs still?

Yes, working towards a fire and forget gig is very different than growing as an improvisor.

[AllanAllen]

Yeah, I've forgotten dozens of songs I learned for 1 gig. But stuff I spent real time with, like Billies Bounce or Ornihology, I can not play them for months and with no sweat pull it off on a gig.

But ask me to play Moondance and I've got to look up the changes because I don't care about it.