Too much of me

[CliffR]

I've been working for quite some time on a variety of licks and devices, playing them over various chord changes and tunes. Realising I hadn't spent enough time playing entire tunes, I tried improvising over ATTYA and was disappointed to find none of what I'd been working on came across. I know this will take a while, but I was pretty frustrated since I felt I'd made genuine progress with my pivots, arpeggios, scales with skips, etc etc. And I still lose my place in the form.

So Jens advised me to try a simpler tune and one with which I was more familiar. So here I am, back with All Of Me. I found a backing track online that didn't also visually display the changes, which at least forced me to rely on memory. I managed four solid takes and a few false starts in the course of 90 minutes playing, but I did manage to keep the form for those four takes for a few choruses. (Eventually I got lost each time around.) None of my fancy new ideas came out in my playing, so I'm wondering if I should slow the tempo down until I reach a point where I can consciously incorporate them, but it does seem like my fluency with the tune is better than the last couple of times I recorded it in September and July before that.

Critique and advice is appreciated! Also compliments - they go down really well

[Rob MacKillop]

Well done, Cliff. Lots of good things in there.

From my perspective:

1. Good phrasing of the melody, with good occasional decoration
2. The solo started well, developing the melody. In fact I could sense the melody lurking in the background throughout the entire solo - not a bad thing at all.
3. The solo developed in density: the number of notes per bar increased with each time through the chart, which is engaging for the listener.
4. Negative: The entire melody and solos took place in the same region of the guitar fingerboard, and mostly (all?) on the top four strings. I would have liked to hear the lower positions coming into play, less so notes above the 12th fret (personal choice on my behalf - one has to be very confident when exploring high positions)
5. How about some two or three-note chords (strings 2 to 4) either when stating the melody, in the gaps, or when doing the first solo?

You could try the tempo slower if that would give you more time to anticipate what's coming - nothing wrong with doing that at all, it breeds confidence. ATTYA is a lot more difficult, but you are building a good foundation for tackling it, so don't get too frustrated now.

Feel free to ignore everything I've said, if you feel so inclined! I often ignore what I tell myself

[joe2758]

awesome!!!

[emanresu]

Take time and transcribe your playing fully.
Then learn it well. Like really really well.
Then record it again.
Then.. you'll see that everything was right.

In rhythm music - rhythm comes first. Whatever you do, it should be completely solid.
You almost have it, but you "make room" with your hesitation.

If you play those same notes with good rhythm and confidence, see what happens!

edit: your picking time is good already but it feels so fragile. I cannot pinpoint the issue, just that you have to push it. own it. do it.

[vintagelove]

I've been working for quite some time on a variety of licks and devices, playing them over various chord changes and tunes. Realising I hadn't spent enough time playing entire tunes, I tried improvising over ATTYA and was disappointed to find none of what I'd been working on came across. I know this will take a while, but I was pretty frustrated since I felt I'd made genuine progress with my pivots, arpeggios, scales with skips, etc etc. And I still lose my place in the form.

So Jens advised me to try a simpler tune and one with which I was more familiar. So here I am, back with All Of Me. I found a backing track online that didn't also visually display the changes, which at least forced me to rely on memory. I managed four solid takes and a few false starts in the course of 90 minutes playing, but I did manage to keep the form for those four takes for a few choruses. (Eventually I got lost each time around.) None of my fancy new ideas came out in my playing, so I'm wondering if I should slow the tempo down until I reach a point where I can consciously incorporate them, but it does seem like my fluency with the tune is better than the last couple of times I recorded it in September and July before that.

Critique and advice is appreciated! Also compliments - they go down really well

Have you practiced those things you've been working on, in their actual harmonic context?


So for instance, if you have something that works on a dominant chord, I would advise practicing over something like a 251 backing track. Once you're comfortable applying it there, in a few keys, move to playing it over a blues. Let's say on the V chord where you have a lot of time to set it up and you're comfortable with the form.

Once you can do it there, then try applying it in tunes.

lastly, I'm paraphrasing here, but didn't Pat Matheny say something like it took him several months for a new concept he is working on to come out in his improvisation? Don't be too hard on yourself. Music is an unscalable mountain. Best you can do is wake up every day and climb a little higher.

[CliffR]

Thanks all for listening and for your thoughtful comments.

Rob - it's definitely the case I was playing in the area of the fretboard with which I'm most comfortable. Probably time to try moving a little further towards the headstock . Chord stabs are something I'd like to introduce, but for some reason always forget to work on.

emanresu and brent - you both seem to be focussing on maybe a lack of commitment in my playing? I know I've suffered greatly from this in the past, usually wen't I'm not sure what I'm doing or where I'm going. I thought I'd gotten over that, but perhaps some still remains. I agree I could definitely come up with some rhythmically variations, although I'm not so sure about quarter note triplets. I'm trying to play in the bebop style and I don't hear those as idiomatic. I'd like to bring in more 8th note triplets for sure, and maybe some 16th notes. Dynamic range is an interesting one: I've purposefully cultivated a light picking style to help me relax, play at a decent tempo, and because I prefer the tone. Something I need to think about.

vintagelove - yes, I've been working on these ideas typically over ii-V-Is on a loop, switching keys and songs so I learn them in a bunch of positions. It's quite likely I just need to be more patient and eventually some of these ideas will come out. Practicing jazz is a funny thing: the improvements take so long to come out it's often difficult to know in the short term if what one is doing is actually helping get towards the longer term goals.

[emanresu]

emanresu and brent - you both seem to be focussing on maybe a lack of commitment in my playing? I know I've suffered greatly from this in the past, usually wen't I'm not sure what I'm doing or where I'm going. I thought I'd gotten over that, but perhaps some still remains. I agree I could definitely come up with some rhythmically variations, although I'm not so sure about quarter note triplets.

Not exactly. The commitment is there and we see it... but it feels that it is a worrysome, hesitant and it carries over to your playing. Which is fine. Notes fine, phrases, fine. Nothing wrong there.

I just parroted a thing that someone said about their own playing when he was playing awesome. He said that he just improvises, then listens it back, transcribes himself when finds something cool. And makes sure that it will "cut through, be convincing, be "100% as meant".
I hear you playing nice stuff but I didn't get the "awesomeness" that comes from 100% belief... which is - as said by someone else - articulation and "let those bridges burn back there"-kinda attitude.
And it is all about rhythm, the ancient animal-kind.

[CliffR]

Cliff, are you stressed when you play??? I just re-watched your video (and some of your older videos) and only now noticed how tense you are!

There's no need to put all that pressure on yourself to play that learnt lick or bop phrase or sequence or make the changes. There's a better and simpler way to play this music without doing all the above and still play something satisfying for both you and the audience.

Also, stop counting in 4 (if you're doing this). Learn to feel everything in 2; it will relax you immediately. Jazz is dance music where dancers shift their weight on beats 1 and 3. You need to feel the 1 and 3. Time will slow down, and you will suddenly find that you have a lot more space to play.

Oh, for sure. I tend to be a pretty anxious person in general. But I don't think it's anything to do with putting pressure on myself.

[digger]

I enjoyed that, Cliff. The key thing is that the hard work is paying off and you are improving consistently.

Nicely done

Derek

[CliffR]

I enjoyed that, Cliff. The key thing is that the hard work is paying off and you are improving consistently.

Nicely done

Derek

Thanks Derek!

[GuyBoden]

Cliff, I enjoyed your playing, it's much better than your previous videos, where I thought that some songs were too difficult for your level (IMHO).

But, I'd like to hear you comping, because comping is what Jazz Guitarists do most.

Personally, I only play easy songs. I've played difficult songs in the past and it wasn't a rewarding experience for a low level hobby player like myself.

Keep up the good work.

[CliffR]

Another go at All Of Me. I've been practicing comping and playing the melody over a backing track by Mr Sunny Bass, as a means of removing my dependency on the sheet music. That's going pretty well, but I found I was still getting lost too frequently when improvising, so I've found a track from new app Quartet to use for now. I'd love to hear thoughts and criticisms. (I've taken on board the earlier pointers people have given me so far, and have been incorporating some of them in my practice, but most have yet to find their way naturally into my playing - please don't think I'm not paying attention!)

[Sigmund451]

I enjoyed listening and I love the title of your thread.

[Zack]

Good work !
Nice tone too, in time with some good phrasing.

[GuyBoden]

Keep up the good work Cliff.

Maybe, memorise the melody and chords.

(But, I struggle memorising too many songs, mainly because it takes constant maintenance to retain them.)

[CliffR]

Thanks fellas! I do actually play through the tune pretty much every day, once with just the chords, and once with the straight melody. One day I'll have it memorised

[GuyBoden]

Just curious, what's your method of memorising melodies?

For me, it's the three R's

Repetition, Repetition, Repetition........................................ .........

Thanks fellas! I do actually play through the tune pretty much every day, once with just the chords, and once with the straight melody. One day I'll have it memorised

Keep up the good work, Cliff.

I play the same one song melody/comping, without any sheet music, for an hour or two or even three. (I'm being serious.)

I'm only a low level hobby player, but the Pro's seem to remember an awful lot of songs. Maybe, they will divulge their magic formula.

[pawlowski6132]

yeah amazing how they can do that... myself i categorise my tunes by major triad shapes and if they are to the left of the shape or right of the shape. there might be a more efficient way of doing this

That makes no sense

[Zack]

Keep up the good work Cliff.

Maybe, memorise the melody and chords.

(But, I struggle memorising too many songs, mainly because it takes constant maintenance to retain them.)

Same here! Though not comforting an observation , somehow reassuring to know it isn't only me feeling this way.

[Cunamara]

If there are lyrics, learning them can be a helpful tool for recall. Most jazz greats recommend this and they are right. For instrumentals, learn to sing or hum the melody.