My Whole-tone Journey

[pamosmusic]

So you're really talking more about note patterns than fingering patterns? It's interesting how the two go together, for me it's more of a technical shortcoming than a musical one, more chromatic phrases often demand unconventional fingering patterns so I'm fighting old habits.

Yeah! That’s kind of what I mean. Or the reverse of that I guess — hoping for less symmetrical lines by trying to find a few less-symmetrical scale fingerings.

[Mick-7]

Yeah! That’s kind of what I mean. Or the reverse of that I guess — hoping for less symmetrical lines by trying to find a few less-symmetrical scale fingerings.

Unfortunately I'm finding that it's not so easy to reject the adage, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks".... once you've become the dog.

[pamosmusic]

Unfortunately I'm finding that it's not so easy to reject the adage, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks".... once you've become the dog.

fortunately I’m just a medium dog

[supersoul]

Symmetry is built into the wholetone scale, probably more than other scale. I know there are other symmetrical scales but the whole tone scale just has this floating, artificial quality to it. There are only 6 notes, so it's hard to find things that aren't patterns. It's really difficult to not be symmetrical sounding.
It has a tritone substitution baked into it. C D E and then F# G# A# and then back. That transition is almost like stepping into an empty elevator shaft. That's something I play around with when I use it.
Weird scale! When I was in high school I wrote a little whole tone etude in order to get a handle on it. It's hard use it and not sound contrived.

[pamosmusic]

Another thing I’ve found useful is the maj b5 and 7b5 arpeggios.

I’ve been tinkering around with cadences … so like Dm7 going to Eb7b5 … Dm7 going to F7b5 … to G7b5 … to A7b5 … to B7b5 … to Db7b5. Same thing from Fmaj7 to those … from G7, from Bm7b5.

Tinkering now but something that’s maybe worth spending real time on

[Christian Miller]

The 7b5-dim scale is like two major retractors glued together by a tritone. It includes the whole tone scale and is cool to play with

C D E F F# G# A# B C


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[wolflen]

Another thing I’ve found useful is the maj b5 and 7b5 arpeggios.

I’ve been tinkering around with cadences … so like Dm7 going to Eb7b5 … Dm7 going to F7b5 … to G7b5 … to A7b5 … to B7b5 … to Db7b5. Same thing from Fmaj7 to those … from G7, from Bm7b5.

Tinkering now but something that’s maybe worth spending real time on

Those 7b5 chords..G7b5 G B Db F = Db7b5 Db F G B ..thinking in two (chords..scales..keys) yes takes some practice to connect to familiar ground
but well worth the effort

[wolflen]

Symmetry is built into the wholetone scale, probably more than other scale. I know there are other symmetrical scales but the whole tone scale just has this floating, artificial quality to it. There are only 6 notes, so it's hard to find things that aren't patterns. It's really difficult to not be symmetrical sounding.
It has a tritone substitution baked into it. C D E and then F# G# A# and then back. That transition is almost like stepping into an empty elevator shaft. That's something I play around with when I use it.
Weird scale! When I was in high school I wrote a little whole tone etude in order to get a handle on it. It's hard use it and not sound contrived.

OK so its only six notes BUT the augmented scale is also hexatonic..C Eb E G Ab B

Three major triads Three minor triads and Six aug triads ... it is also part of the harmonic structure for Giant Steps and other Coltrane compositions.

With some practice time you can develop some nice lines and not sound a bit symmetrical or contrived.

Some of Wayne Shorters work uses some of this thinking in his harmonic movements. See Ju Ju

[pamosmusic]

I've been sticking with this. I've started trying to do some line-building stuff with the whole tone scales. Basically putting whole tone stuff on anything dominant, even if I might not normally. Pretty fun sound. Kind of Monk-esque, though I guess that's a little reductive or whatever.

I spent a few days playing "diatonic" 1 3 b5 triads through the scales. I love those triads. I started inverting them today. So I've got 3 b5 1 ... or whole step, tritone.

Some of this is starting to come out a bit when I play. Blueses have been useful for that.

[Mick-7]

Here's another good whole tone vehicle, I'm finding it hard to improvise coherently over all the m^7 chord changes (which are essentially augmented chords).