Progressive List of Solos that improved your 'vocab' ...

[Question]

Although I posted the transcription above, I am with Christian Miller on this that really digesting small fragments of a solo is often more useful and easier to utilize than doing the whole solo.

In fact, after finishing the transcription, I wrote my favorite three C.C. phrases into my practice book!

On the other hand, there are benefits such as ear training, phrasing/rhythmic ideas, learning to notate clearly and seeing the whole harmonic/melodic construction of the solo. That is aside from the technical aspects that need to be overcome that MMT mentions in his video.

Just my 2 cents.

[jameslovestal]

I would be interested to hear what the OP means when they say "for vocab."

What are you doing with these solos, out of curiosity? What's the difference in how you'd work on a solo for vocab, versus a solo that's no so much for vocab?

I increased my jazz guitar "vocab" with the two solos I selected:

Kessell - Mean to Me - Poll Winners - the trade-off of fours at the end of the song: each trade-off is unique but also connected.

Raney - Watch What Happens - Live in Toyko - how to make chorus after chorus interesting on a pop orientated tune melodic and hip.

[pamosmusic]

I increased my jazz guitar "vocab" with the two solos I selected:

Kessell - Mean to Me - Poll Winners - the trade-off of fours at the end of the song: each trade-off is unique but also connected.

Raney - Watch What Happens - Live in Toyko - how to make chorus after chorus interesting on a pop orientated tune melodic and hip.

I guess I’m asking how you decide what’s a vocab solo and what’s not. I have some that I would categorize this way; just curious how the OP (or you, or whoever) would.

Or how you’d work on them differently.

[jamiehenderson1993]

I guess I’m asking how you decide what’s a vocab solo and what’s not. I have some that I would categorize this way; just curious how the OP (or you, or whoever) would.

Or how you’d work on them differently.

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I guess for me (and I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, so I'm happy to be corrected), I see a 'vocab' solo as one where the soloist plays phrases which would be considered idiomatic to the specific style that they are playing.

They are playing something that 'feels and sounds like X' whether that be Jazz; Country; Blues; Metal etc. Phrases that you could show and teach a Student and be able to confidently say "This is a Jazzy phrase / This is a common thing played in Metal solos / You'll find this type of thing gets played a lot in this style"

As I'm typing this, I'm seeing flaws in that explanation, but that's all I got!

Would still love to hear other people's favourite solos that taught them specific Jazz and Blues vocabulary that they still use today.

This is a really interesting thread, I'm happy I posted it.

[jameslovestal]

I guess I’m asking how you decide what’s a vocab solo and what’s not. I have some that I would categorize this way; just curious how the OP (or you, or whoever) would.

Or how you’d work on them differently.

I provided those two solos with the POV that "vocab" related to how the musician generally approached the solo (or a section of it).

Note that I also thought about a more specific and technical POV (related to vocab), a musician might use in a section of the solo; E.g. the specific chord tones the musician emphasized when changes go from X-Y-to-Z etc... But since that can be highly technical and my skill level is mid-level (at best), I decided to go more general. (and let the more advanced members at this forum educated me on these more technical concepts, like they have been doing since I joined this great forum many years ago).

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The first jazz album I ever bought was Brubeck at Newport 1958. I'd already been listening to a lot of jazz on the radio for a few years on stations like WRVR (New York) and WHAT (Philly). My dad had a huge Stromberg Carlson "hifi" system with a multiband tuner, and he built a 75 foot antenna tower behind our house. So I had already heard a lot of great jazz. But when I heard Desmond's solo on Perdido, it had a magical effect on me and I knew I had to learn to play like that. He built his solos from the ground up, with an accelerating excitement curve and a logical progression from simple to really deep. Yet it's not hurried or cluttered at all - it's pretty simple as far as the notes go, but it's really elegant. There are so many licks and concepts in this that simply learning them gave me the vocabulary to make me sound like I knew what I was doing. Of course, it was all Desmond's innovation, and I appreciated it for exactly what it was - it was (and still is) one of the best lessons I ever got in how to play jazz. His solo starts at 0:36, and the extended cadenza at 2:28 is among the most beautiful playing I've ever heard:

Moving up the complexity scale, the jazz guitar solo that got me started was Gone With The Wind on The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery. This is another one that I learned note for note and dissected into a thousand pieces. I've used each piece hundreds of times by now, and I learned to develop each idea further on my own. But to this day, I don't come up with many of the kind of artful licks that Wes just tossed at us bar after bar after bar. I still can't play this tune without throwing in at least 2 or 3 of those little licks that let you know they came from Wes - because nobody else has ever thought exactly like this. The rhythms, lines, and structure of his solos will always be uniquely his.

If you want complex beauty for inspiration, look no further than Frank Stozier's opening cadenza on K C Blues on a 1968 Don Ellis album called Autumn. I still have the original that I bought when it was released, and it absolutely blew my mind the first time I heard it. I sat on the floor of my room and listened to this over and over for hours the day i got it. In the ensuing 56 years, I've spent decades trying to play it note for note.....and I'm getting closer. But I've never even approached the facility to blow through those lines on the guitar, and I still don't bring out the magic in this:

Hearing multiple versions of this tune by the same band and soloist is a lesson in how some ideas are magical and some are just blowing. I strongly recommend spedning a ot of time listening to different versions of the same tune by the same perfomer(s) - the variability is fascinating, and you begin to realize that it's not just you who's "on" one day and barely lukewarm the next. Here's the same band and soloist playing the same tune live in the same year. I don't think Strozier's opeining and solo is nearly as captivating in this version as it is on the Autumn album:

[pamosmusic]

The first jazz album I ever bought was Brubeck at Newport 1958. I'd already been listening to a lot of jazz on the radio for a few years on stations like WRVR (New York) and WHAT (Philly). My dad had a huge Stromberg Carlson "hifi" system with a multiband tuner, and he built a 75 foot antenna tower behind our house. So I had already heard a lot of great jazz. But when I heard Desmond's solo on Perdido, it had a magical effect on me and I knew I had to learn to play like that. He built his solos from the ground up, with an accelerating excitement curve and a logical progression from simple to really deep. Yet it's not hurried or cluttered at all - it's pretty simple as far as the notes go, but it's really elegant. There are so many licks and concepts in this that simply learning them gave me the vocabulary to make me sound like I knew what I was doing. Of course, it was all Desmond's innovation, and I appreciated it for exactly what it was - it was (and still is) one of the best lessons I ever got in how to play jazz. His solo starts at 0:36, and the extended cadenza at 2:28 is among the most beautiful playing I've ever heard:

Moving up the complexity scale, the jazz guitar solo that got me started was Gone With The Wind on The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery. This is another one that I learned note for note and dissected into a thousand pieces. I've used each piece hundreds of times by now, and I learned to develop each idea further on my own. But to this day, I don't come up with many of the kind of artful licks that Wes just tossed at us bar after bar after bar. I still can't play this tune without throwing in at least 2 or 3 of those little licks that let you know they came from Wes - because nobody else has ever thought exactly like this. The rhythms, lines, and structure of his solos will always be uniquely his.

If you want complex beauty for inspiration, look no further than Frank Stozier's opening cadenza on K C Blues on a 1968 Don Ellis album called Autumn. I still have the original that I bought when it was released, and it absolutely blew my mind the first time I heard it. I sat on the floor of my room and listened to this over and over for hours the day i got it. In the ensuing 56 years, I've spent decades trying to play it note for note.....and I'm getting closer. But I've never even approached the facility to blow through those lines on the guitar, and I still don't bring out the magic in this:

Hearing multiple versions of this tune by the same band and soloist is a lesson in how some ideas are magical and some are just blowing. I strongly recommend spedning a ot of time listening to different versions of the same tune by the same perfomer(s) - the variability is fascinating, and you begin to realize that it's not just you who's "on" one day and barely lukewarm the next. Here's the same band and soloist playing the same tune live in the same year. I don't think Strozier's opeining and solo is nearly as captivating in this version as it is on the Autumn album:

Nothing but bangers on this list.

I actually don’t know the Newport recording well but the first album I bought with my own money was the Oberlin concert, which also has Perdido on it and which also made me a Paul Desmond hack for life.

Hes such a nice one because his solos really do have a lovely arc and he can blow quite a few choruses but I really think you could drop a needle anywhere on any solo and have a great lick to work on in isolation. Incredible stuff.

And yet … I don’t think I’ve ever transcribed him?

Guess I should.

EDIT: I’m getting de ja vu which makes me think we’ve had this My First Album Was conversation before.

[pamosmusic]

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I guess for me (and I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, so I'm happy to be corrected), I see a 'vocab' solo as one where the soloist plays phrases which would be considered idiomatic to the specific style that they are playing.

They are playing something that 'feels and sounds like X' whether that be Jazz; Country; Blues; Metal etc. Phrases that you could show and teach a Student and be able to confidently say "This is a Jazzy phrase / This is a common thing played in Metal solos / You'll find this type of thing gets played a lot in this style"

As I'm typing this, I'm seeing flaws in that explanation, but that's all I got!

Would still love to hear other people's favourite solos that taught them specific Jazz and Blues vocabulary that they still use today.

This is a really interesting thread, I'm happy I posted it.

Nice! Yeah that sounds about like maybe I would define it?

Maybe useful for me to put some solos I’ve transcribed that I don’t think of as vocabulary solos:

Miles on Green Dolphin St and Miles on All Blues jump to mind.

Brilliant stuff and tons to learn, but nothing I took away and worked on by itself.

The Jim Hall solos, on the other hand, I learn whole, then learn parts I like with other fingerings, then bracket the killer licks and work on them in isolation, then turn whatever I can from those cool parts into exercises I can take to scale practice or whatever else. (They’re also brilliant for phrasing, rhythmic stuff, melodic development, etc)