Octaves - fingerings

[alltunes]

Is there a reason that XX7X10X seems to be preferred over XX7XX5 in the jazz world? Or are both of these shapes often used?

[SOLR]

Is there a reason that XX7X10X seems to e preferred over XX7XX5 in the jazz world? Or are both of these shapes often used?

I wouldn't know why the "jazz world" prefers what it prefers but for me XX7X10X feels more natural it follows the orientation of the hand and it's also easier to mute unwanted strings and a 3 string hit is cleaner sounding then a 4 string one..for me.. I do play mostly with a pick although do the octaves with the thumb. But now, you got me trying the other way . I've seen it done both ways especially when playing upper frets.

S

[ccroft]

I use mostly 7X10. Not sure why I started that way. It was a very long time ago. I think it was because at that point I only strummed the octave rather than finger picking it. Cleaner sound since there's only 1 muted string and the played strings are closer together. It also might have made more sense to a beginner: the higher note is higher up the neck.

I now strum for faster passages and hybrid pick for the different sound at times. Still pretty much only use 7x10 (7x9 for wound strings of course).

I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to explain why 7xx5 is far superior :-)

[Vihar]

Is there a reason that XX7X10X seems to be preferred over XX7XX5 in the jazz world? Or are both of these shapes often used?

Which one feels more comfortable to you?

[rpjazzguitar]

I believe that the subtle sound of the deadened string in the middle is part of Wes' octave sound. So, if you want that exact sound maybe you need to have only one string in between the fretted octaves.

And, maybe it's easier to play. When I do octaves separated by two strings I pluck each string, I don't sweep them.

But, if someone gets the sound they want a different way, who's going to complain?

[grahambop]

Wes even played double octaves once - he starts his solo with them on the live in Paris version of Here’s That Rainy Day (I don’t know of any other recordings where he did this though).

So played like this for example (obviously has to be hybrid picked, or thumb and finger):

5xxxx5

[itsmyname]

this B string, When I use octaves I always feel like "why this B string and his sister High E, come on !".

everything is parallel then the B string things come and the high E too and I need to take care while jumping on the strings.



EADGCF is the parallel world !

[Tal_175]

Tal Farlow used the other octave shape.

[Alter]

Benson uses both, and many times he plays one note in between, so octaves with the third also (or you can see it as a sixth interval with one note doubled).

[supersoul]

The other way (x10xx8x, xx10xx8) lets you use your thumb over the edge to mute the lower strings. I noticed Prince playing octaves this way.

[jameslovestal]

I use both; I switch from one to the other when the "other one" requires less wrist movement.

[reventlov]

Wes even played double octaves once - he starts his solo with them on the live in Paris version of Here’s That Rainy Day (I don’t know of any other recordings where he did this though).

He used double octaves in a passage in his recording of "Bumpin' on Sunset" - great sound! I've seen Jeff Beck also using them - he fretted them with his thumb on 6th string, index finger on 1st string.

[Litterick]

I play double octaves with thumb and forefinger, often. It is quite addictive.

[PMB]

Tal Farlow used the other octave shape.

Along with Chuck Wayne.

[AllanAllen]

He used double octaves in a passage in his recording of "Bumpin' on Sunset" - great sound! I've seen Jeff Beck also using them - he fretted them with his thumb on 6th string, index finger on 1st string.

The Train Kept a Rolling lick from Johnny Burnett and the Rock and Roll Trio.

[alltunes]

Which one feels more comfortable to you?

7XX5 sometimes as there is only a one fret spread but I'm getting comfortable with the other ones as well. The B string adjustment needs attention especially when switching scale length on guitar (Fender vs Gibson)

p.s. thanks for everyone's input

[pauln]

I use this system...

OXOXXX second O ^ 2 frets
XOXOXX second O ^ 2 frets
XXOXOX second O ^ 3 frets
XXXOXO second O ^ 3 frets

- higher pitch is always higher up the neck, conceptual vs physical is normal
- easy to assign the registration, (especially if you always use fingers 1 & 4)
- good for fast octaves, complex octaves, big jumping, moving, etc. octaves

This feels conceptually easier, more natural, and more reliable mechanically.
Using first and fourth fingers to play all these forms makes the hand's work
much simpler. Registration here means which of the two octave pitches one
employs as the indicator of the pitch to play; great advantage comes from a
system that consistently uses either the top or the bottom pitch. In terms of
extension these fingerings are oriented such that the lower octaves go lower
and the higher octaves go higher while maintaining the same fingering form.

Never use this system...

OXXOXX second O v 3 frets
XOXXOX second O v 2 frets
XXOXXO second O v 2 frets

- the higher pitch is lower down the neck, conceptual vs physical, is inverted
- awkward fingering for OXXOXX may require different fingering from others
- registration of higher octaves may be difficult, forced positions up the neck
- there are only three instances of this form (the other form above has four)

Actually only the second and third forms are usable, the first is way too hard.
The registration serves to minimize useful range along the length of the neck.
This fingering doesn't lend itself to consistent employment of first and fourth.

[StringNavigator]

Just a minor point, but the octave possibilities on the fingerboard can be referred to by their CAGED forms. This way of looking at them places them in relation to the other usable tones within the CAGED shape and reveals the overall symmetry.

EG: For C, below the 12fth fret, the fret numbers are...

E 8x10xxx
A x3x5xx
D xx10x13x
G xxx5x8 The Top4 strings of the G can be called the Long A shape.

G 8xx5xx
C x3xx1x
E xx10xx8 The Top4 strings of the E form are often called the F shape.
A xxx5xx (N/A)

E 8xxxx8 Double Octave.
G 8xxxx8 Double Octave.

Yielding 9 usable octave fingerings.

::

[Christian Miller]

Is there a reason that XX7X10X seems to be preferred over XX7XX5 in the jazz world? Or are both of these shapes often used?

Muting ….
harder to mute the second. The Wes Montgomery thing, strumming across the strings.

Pasquale Grasso plays octaves more like a classical player, as he uses pick and fingers t muting is not required. Chromatic scale in octaves in position is a common classical exercise. Actually I should really add that to my warm ups, so….

[Christian Miller]

Btw I like basing scales and arpeggios around octave shapes; it’s a very flexible way to organise fretboard knowledge.