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  1. #1

    Patterns for Jazz study group - April 2019

    This study group is based on the book, Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker, Jimmy Casale, Gary Campbell and Jerry Greene.

    Post a "deadline version" video of any or all of the weekly patterns, by Sunday each week, following this schedule:

    April 7: Patterns 13-15

    April 14: Patterns 16-17

    April 21: Patterns 18-21

    April 28: Patterns 22-23

    Please, state the BPM you're using, which pattern(s) you're posting, and label the post "deadline version", (understanding that a more "final version" may take additional time etc). Please state whether you would like comments on your playing.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 04-03-2019 at 09:33 AM.

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  3. #2
    Okay, I am now convinced that tempo marking in pattern 15 is the misplaced tempo marking for pattern 16. #16 is the first pattern missing a tempo marking, and 15 is completely just completely out of line with anything else for triplets that I can find in the book. The minimum tempo is insane itself, not to mention the ridiculous would-be max. The tempo for triplets on major 7 chords a couple of pages over would seem a better template.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Okay, I am now convinced that tempo marking in pattern 15 is the misplaced tempo marking for pattern 16. #16 is the first pattern missing a tempo marking, and 15 is completely just completely out of line with anything else for triplets that I can find in the book. The minimum tempo is insane itself, not to mention the ridiculous would-be max. The tempo for triplets on major 7 chords a couple of pages over would seem a better template.

    My copy has tempo markings on both exercises 15 and 16 - 138-192 for both.

    13 is 160-208 and 14 is 132-208.


    What do you have?

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    My copy has tempo markings on both exercises 15 and 16 - 138-192 for both.

    13 is 160-208 and 14 is 132-208.


    What do you have?

    .
    Nothing above 16 if I'm remembering right ... Anyway, regardless, it isn't normal any of the other exercises to have the same tempo for both triplet and eighth note exercises.

  6. #5
    That's interesting. Looking back at the PDF from the first thread , I noticed that it has tempo markings for both.
    EDIT: Nope. I'm crazy. Just got home and looked at it . Must've been looking at 20 and 21.

    Still, looking at 89 and 106, I'd call #15's tempo marking a mistake, or at the very least, ill-advised.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 04-03-2019 at 09:26 AM.

  7. #6
    Am I doing the math right on this? I get this:

    138 - 192 (in 8th note TRIPLETS) is individual notes which are as fast as regular eight notes at 207 - 288? If I'm doing that correctly, this marking is clearly a mistake.

  8. #7
    I've edited the tempo marking in my book to 60-120 bpm for pattern #15. This is based on the tempo markings for analogous introductory triplet pattern tempo markings on patterns #1, #89 and #106.

  9. #8
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    Still here, guys

    Not exactly stuck on #11 and #12, but I want to get them a tad smoother than they are.
    Just starting on #13-15 (6th chords). I'll get there.

    I'll make a video perhaps tonight of 11 and 12 then one in a few days for this week's material (or at least one of 'em.)

    Glad this group is rolling along. Thanks for getting the ball rolling, Matt!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  10. #9
    This popped up in my feed today. I don't speak Portuguese, but the last two or three minutes is applying certain PFJ patterns over the changes to blues for Alice.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Am I doing the math right on this? I get this:

    138 - 192 (in 8th note TRIPLETS) is individual notes which are as fast as regular eight notes at 207 - 288? If I'm doing that correctly, this marking is clearly a mistake.

    Matt - The marking appears to be quite intentional and is consistent with surrounding exercises.

    Pattern #15 stays on one chord per measure and ends with a nice long half note, so that should enable one to "set up" for the next chord.

    Think about it this way, we have often discussed practicing scales or any other melodic material with 16th notes at 120 bpm. That is 120, 240, 360, 480 "strikes" per minute for quarter, eighth, eighth note triplet, and sixteenth notes respectively. That is fast but not super fast.

    Some on the forum claim to be able to play sixteenth notes at 160-200 bpm. That would be 4x strikes per minute with sixteenth notes, or 640-800.

    So, if we guitarists can play 480 strikes per minute and still not be "super fast" then we can do this exercise too. Exercise #15 requires 414- 576 strikes per minute, for eighth note triplets. That is challenging to very challenging for guitarists, but probably not too challenging for pianists or sax players.

    That said, slowing it down to a setting where one can play with security (accuracy and clarity) is the right thing to do.


    Cheers.

  12. #11
    I just tried it at 160 bpm. The only challenge was root movement in fourths but I could iron that out in less than an hour or so...

    Give it a whirl.

  13. #12
    This exercise is far and away faster than anything else in the book . It breaks pretty clearly from the stated goals in the introduction about achieving basic competency on simple rudiments and then moving on. It isn't comparable at all to similar exercises. The melodic rhythm of the previous exercises are much slower , and the ones after are eighth notes. Everywhere else in the book the eighth note exercises are slightly faster than the triplets, never exactly the same.

    I've never seen you post ANY playing under ANY username . Post video playing this at max tempo. Or even minimum tempo. I know it'll never happen. Troll on something else, fumble fingers.

  14. #13
    I agree that 192 is way fast for that exercise. I can do it with sweep picking at that tempo, but with alternate picking, I can only get up around 180 and stay clean. I've spent a lot of time practicing flatpicking and cross picking, though.


    It's probably a misprint.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    I just tried it at 160 bpm. The only challenge was root movement in fourths but I could iron that out in less than an hour or so...

    Give it a whirl.
    I can't cut it at that tempo. By all means post a clip of you doing it at this tempo. This is a playing and posting thread so to get any hearing here you need to post. Otherwise you will score a nice spot on everyone's "Ignore" list.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  16. #15
    i played it at 230. it wasn't hard, you guys will get it after some practice.
    White belt
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  17. #16
    should hit 500 soon
    White belt
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  18. #17
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    Dang my metronome head was going so fast at about 780 that the little weight on the arm flew off and HIT MY IPHONE so now I can't make clips to prove to you that I'm a major fret monster fast-player ripping through pages of this book so fast they catch on fire.

    I'm so good even I can't stand it.

    Make sure you have fresh batteries in your ®Acme Irony Detector.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  19. #18
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    Patterns 13-15 Early Efforts

    So here's 13-15.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    So here's 13-15.
    Good stuff, Lawson. I love the feel you're getting playing along with those drum genius loops. I don't know quite what it is, but they're really a different vibe compared to other types of backing tracks etc.

    Thanks for posting.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    This exercise is far and away faster than anything else in the book . It breaks pretty clearly from the stated goals in the introduction about achieving basic competency on simple rudiments and then moving on. It isn't comparable at all to similar exercises. The melodic rhythm of the previous exercises are much slower , and the ones after are eighth notes. Everywhere else in the book the eighth note exercises are slightly faster than the triplets, never exactly the same.

    I've never seen you post ANY playing under ANY username . Post video playing this at max tempo. Or even minimum tempo. I know it'll never happen. Troll on something else, fumble fingers.
    OK, well it sounds like you have; (1) an issue with Coker and his associates, and (2) an issue with me.

    My posts were an attempt to be helpful, and were stated in a non-confrontational way. I did my best to explain the guitarist's take on this book. For some strange reason you seem to have taken my commentary as critical and personal, and fired personal shots in return. Too bad.

    And yeah, I have uploaded a few simple exercises, but am not surprised or concerned if you haven't heard them, and don't know why you would have.

    Best of success to you, going forward.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 04-05-2019 at 10:37 AM.

  22. #21

    4/7 deadline patterns 13-16 various tempos

    Here's my first April submission. I pulled the trigger on BIAB this week, so it was fun trying to come up with some tracks that fit the mood of each line.

    I hit max tempo on all but pattern 15. I was going to post an example of that one at 192 with sweep picking, but it wasn't coming out very clean, so I opted for alternate picking at 140 and sticking to position playing.


    Pattern 13 - 208 bpm - 12th position starting from the 4th finger n the A string





    Pattern 14 - 208 bpm - 8th position starting from the 3rd finger on the D string but moving up and down positions as needed





    Pattern 15 - 140 bpm - 5th position starting from the 4th finger on the E string





    Pattern 16 - 192 bpm - 2nd position starting from the 2nd finger on the A string and moving up and down positions as needed





    .

    I know pattern 16 was scheduled for next week, but It fit well wit this set, so I did it in advance. I figure next week, I'll concentrate on pattern 17 and take it though each of the cycles. That will give me plenty to work on, I'm sure.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    Here's my first April submission.
    Nice. I especially liked your ending on # 13...

  24. #23
    Well, I maimed my little finger this week. Kind of gouged it pretty well with a piece of glass. So, it's bandaged, and I'm getting these annoying ghosted notes, on number 15 especially. I had actually been pretty happy with the legato I was getting on that one, but oh well. It is what it is.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Well, I maimed my little finger this week. Kind of gouged it pretty well with a piece of glass. So, it's bandaged, and I'm getting these annoying ghosted notes, on number 15 especially. I had actually been pretty happy with the legato I was getting on that one, but oh well. It is what it is.

    Great job as always, but man... you gotta work on that happy face.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  26. #25
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    Posted #11 and #12 yesterday in the March thread. Someone suggested I post them here as well. I certainly could do that. My thought was that 11 and 12 were part of March's assignment, so that's where they belong.

    But frankly, I've been so distracted with my mom's health lately (still in rehab, increasingly confused and depressed) that I don't know whether I'm coming or going!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Posted #11 and #12 yesterday in the March thread. Someone suggested I post them here as well. I certainly could do that. My thought was that 11 and 12 were part of March's assignment, so that's where they belong.

    But frankly, I've been so distracted with my mom's health lately (still in rehab, increasingly confused and depressed) that I don't know whether I'm coming or going!
    I feel for you in dealing with your mom. My fahter-in-law lives in our small town, is 91, and starting to have memory, confusion, etc. and had a major surgery slowing him down. It's a 24/7 thing to look after aging parents, but it's one of those moral universals, right? We look after our parents the best we can.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I feel for you in dealing with your mom. My fahter-in-law lives in our small town, is 91, and starting to have memory, confusion, etc. and had a major surgery slowing him down. It's a 24/7 thing to look after aging parents, but it's one of those moral universals, right? We look after our parents the best we can.
    Thanks, Lawson.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  29. #28
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    I feel for you, Mark. My parents are aging now and their care is becoming an issue more and more each year. You are the good son.

    I'm back, guys. I made it through my gig. It was a little hairy but I had a bunch of material to cover as a trio and I was a little nervous about it because I'm an ensemble player primarily, and not used to the trio thing. Our keyboard player couldn't make the gig so I had to lace 'em up tight, cinch up the ball sack and go for it, Haha. Anyway, I managed not to embarrass myself and we avoided any real train wrecks and in the end it boosted my confidence nicely so I'm happy.

    Anyway, I've still been practicing and I'll start by posting up in the March thread where I left off. I'm currently wrapping up patterns 11 & 12 and I should be back on track for a while. Dont want to get too far behind.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye View Post
    I feel for you, Mark. My parents are aging now and their care is becoming an issue more and more each year. You are the good son.

    I'm back, guys. I made it through my gig. It was a little hairy but I had a bunch of material to cover as a trio and I was a little nervous about it because I'm an ensemble player primarily, and not used to the trio thing. Our keyboard player couldn't make the gig so I had to lace 'em up tight, cinch up the ball sack and go for it, Haha. Anyway, I managed not to embarrass myself and we avoided any real train wrecks and in the end it boosted my confidence nicely so I'm happy.

    Anyway, I've still been practicing and I'll start by posting up in the March thread where I left off. I'm currently wrapping up patterns 11 & 12 and I should be back on track for a while. Dont want to get too far behind.
    I had a guitar teacher once say, "one gig is worth six month of lessons". (I took that to apply to those that don't gig often). Focusing on learning that much material really sorts out what you need to work on.
    B+
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  31. #30
    lawson-stone,

    I'm not participating on this thread, but I just wanted to compliment you on your time feel. That video for patterns 13-15 was incredibly groovy, your eighths were even but still swinging like mad. A pattern ain't worth shite unless you can make it groove, and you made those patterns sing!

  32. #31
    So, little slower week this week with the assignment etc. Anyway, wanted to share some personal observations . I've been working on other vocabulary for the last week or so and have found that the work I've done playing these patterns in positions has really helped free up my thinking and hand/ear connection to the instrument.

    Beyond that, cycling new vocabulary in the ways that we cycle these patterns is a really helpful way of working new material . Among other things, it gives you a "reason" to play something a few more times if you need the reps. The cycles give some mental stimulation and develop fretboard awareness on something that might otherwise be more mundane and mind numbing.

  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    This popped up in my feed today. I don't speak Portuguese, but the last two or three minutes is applying certain PFJ patterns over the changes to blues for Alice.
    Check out his YT playlists, they are good!

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    lawson-stone,

    I'm not participating on this thread, but I just wanted to compliment you on your time feel. That video for patterns 13-15 was incredibly groovy, your eighths were even but still swinging like mad. A pattern ain't worth shite unless you can make it groove, and you made those patterns sing!
    What a fine thing to read after a very long day's work, which started at 5:00 AM! Thank you so much for that. I was enjoying it, and I guess it showed. Thank you sir.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  35. #34
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    Hello!

    Found this thread while googling the book and I’m hoping it’s alright to tag along? It was inspiring watching the clips!

    Having just started with the book yesterday I’m way behind, but jumped ahead to pattern 15 and made a quick video. Any constructive criticism is welcome. Bpm 136. Random fingerings, trying not to cut the half notes short.


  36. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    Hello!

    Found this thread while googling the book and I’m hoping it’s alright to tag along? It was inspiring watching the clips!

    Having just started with the book yesterday I’m way behind, but jumped ahead to pattern 15 and made a quick video. Any constructive criticism is welcome. Bpm 136. Random fingerings, trying not to cut the half notes short.

    Great to have you join, Erik. Good job, posting this one. I'll have to rewatch later, but looks good to me. What kind of guitar are you playing there?

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Great to have you join, Erik. Good job, posting this one. I'll have to rewatch later, but looks good to me. What kind of guitar are you playing there?

    Thank you. It is a Gibson ES135 with 57s. It goes through my line6 multieffect (am working on a new clean patch, so I use it all the time for practicing, making small adjustments).

    Looking forward to working with the book, and try to catch up to you guys before the next deadline. This tread is a great idea.

  38. #37
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    Pattern 13

    Once I get to about 175 BPM I'm no longer able to count/tap 4 to the bar. So, I count and tap 2 to the bar which makes the eighth notes be 16th notes relative to my count. Unfortunately I need to slow down to get my rhythm tighter as it falls apart at the faster tempos especially with the syncopated bit for pattern 13.

    Have any of you used a DAW to review your rhythmic accuracy. Here I can see I'm behind on the fourth note of pattern 13, I was consistently behind for the whole recording. This was at 200 bpm (or 100 in double time). The grid lines are 16th notes, actually I'm a bit behind on all but the first note in this image.
    Attached Images Attached Images Patterns for Jazz study group - April 2019-timing-13-png 
    Last edited by fep; 04-13-2019 at 02:21 PM.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  39. #38
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    Here it is at 180 bpm with a metronome instead of a drum track. I'm pretty spot on here. I think part of the issue may be the drum track, and the other part may be the tempo.. the midi drum tracks I have are from a real drummer and they are not snapped to the grid like a lot of drum tracks... hmm, more experimenting needed.
    Attached Images Attached Images Patterns for Jazz study group - April 2019-patt-13-2-png 
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  40. #39
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    Here's my first run at Patterns 16-17. By "first" I don't mean I just looked at them... but the first time I could actually play them through without making a (big) mistake. Tempos are at the bottom end of the scale.

    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  41. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    Hello!

    Found this thread while googling the book and I’m hoping it’s alright to tag along? It was inspiring watching the clips!

    Having just started with the book yesterday I’m way behind, but jumped ahead to pattern 15 and made a quick video. Any constructive criticism is welcome. Bpm 136. Random fingerings, trying not to cut the half notes short.

    Come on in. The water's fine.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  42. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Once I get to about 175 BPM I'm no longer able to count/tap 4 to the bar. So, I count and tap 2 to the bar which makes the eighth notes be 16th notes relative to my count. Unfortunately I need to slow down to get my rhythm tighter as it falls apart at the faster tempos especially with the syncopated bit for pattern 13.

    Have any of you used a DAW to review your rhythmic accuracy. Here I can see I'm behind on the fourth note of pattern 13, I was consistently behind for the whole recording. This was at 200 bpm (or 100 in double time). The grid lines are 16th notes, actually I'm a bit behind on all but the first note in this image.
    Is that swing time though? There was a pretty interesting post a while back on the interpretation of notated syncopation in swing. It can be pretty different, depending on the type of rhythm.

    I'd have to hear it. If it SOUNDS good, the way it lines up visually is more of a curiosity for me than a measurement of accuracy. I always like your sound... :-)

    I've had an awkward relationship with DAW the last few years. I need to get back in the waters I guess...

  43. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Here's my first run at Patterns 16-17. By "first" I don't mean I just looked at them... but the first time I could actually play them through without making a (big) mistake. Tempos are at the bottom end of the scale.

    I always enjoy the personal style you put in, Lawson. I like the push in the second one...

  44. #43
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    Patterns 16 and 17

    Worked on these two today. Don’t know why YouTube makes the audio sound crap. Any constructive criticism is welcome!

    Pattern 16. Bpm 170. Limiting myself to the second, third, and fourth string.



    pattern 17. Bpm 135. Trying to move around as little as possible.


  45. #44
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    PFJ #13 and then #14-17 at one go

    I've been working in Werner Poehlert's "Basic Mediantic" book, which stresses diagonal fingerings. So I'm not trying to stay in position here. Indeed, I'm trying to get used to making wider shifts than I'm used to.

    I do love the 6 chord. I prefer it to the major 7 chord. Whenever I'm playing a Swing-era tune, I use a 6 for the I chord. It sounds better to me.

    Just did two takes: one each of #13 and then #14-17.



    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  46. #45
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    Mark, good job. You're not playing the rhthm as written for pattern 13, it sounds like you are playing swing eighths. As written the second note of the pattern should be on the down beat.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  47. #46
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    Pattern 13

    Pattern 13 is a bit more rhthmically complex than the rest so far. At the faster tempos I'm tapping my foot on the 1 and the 3, i.e. twice per measure instead of four times. Below on the second line of the image is the way I'm thinking of the rhythm at faster tempos which is the same rhythm but in double time.
    Attached Images Attached Images Patterns for Jazz study group - April 2019-pattern-13-jpg 
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  48. #47
    Patterns 16 & 17 in 2 positions:


    192 bpm and 144 bpm. Maybe too fast; a little sloppy.
    Comments welcome.

  49. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Patterns 16 & 17 in 2 positions:

    192 bpm and 144 bpm. Maybe too fast; a little sloppy.
    Comments welcome.
    Nice job Matt. You are in the sweet spot between playing the time strictly as written and imparting a personal jazz feel to it. I think that's the right place to be. You're also pushing the tempo to the outer edge of what you can do, which sort of opens a spot up for everyone else to try a challenging approach and take a risk.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  50. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Nice job Matt. You are in the sweet spot between playing the time strictly as written and imparting a personal jazz feel to it. I think that's the right place to be. You're also pushing the tempo to the outer edge of what you can do, which sort of opens a spot up for everyone else to try a challenging approach and take a risk.
    Wow. Thanks, Lawson. That means a lot! "Feel first" has kind of been my standard for choosing takes. I especially want things to swing as much as possible. Thanks again for the kind words.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 04-16-2019 at 09:06 AM.

  51. #50
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    Pattern 13, 14 at 180bpm & 15 at 130 bpm

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

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