How to do line runs fingerstyle??

[Marty Grass]

What are good techniques for getting solo lines without a pick?

I see how Jeff Beck does it, basically alternating his thumb and index finger. Classic players appear to use their index and middle fingers.

This guy looks like he uses all three.

[monk]

Marty,
Using T I T I, T M T M, I M I M, T I T M, T M I T M I and T I M T I M are all options that you can and should explore.

Most of these have been used by Lenny Breau, Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Ted Greene, Scotty Anderson and other fingerstyle guitarists.

Also using a repeated finger such as T T T T, I I I I or M M M M are options that have been used by players such as Joe Pass and Martin Taylor.

Lenny B and Chet A played a lot of three-note-per-string scalar passages using T M I T M I. For triads or arpeggios ascending across three adjacent strings, T I M is a good starting point. You could reverse that to play a descending arpeggio.

Other problems will require other solutions. You can make it as simple as replacing alternating Down-Up with a plectrum with alternating T I or I M or you can explore the possibilities of adding in another finger. You'll have to do some serious practice accompanied by some serious thinking to really get good at it.

Regards,
Jerome

[Marty Grass]

Thanks. That gives me the courage to go forward. I'll fumble through some attempts at each approach.

If I had fingernails it would be easier or at least faster. But that's not going to happen.

[monk]

Marty,
You haven't mentioned what type of guitar you'll be playing but long fingernails, while necessary to bring out the tone and volume of a classic guitar, can be harsh when used on an electric guitar.

Ted Greene and Jerry Reed didn't use nail. I don't think Tim Lerch does either. Martin Taylor uses some kind of "nail enhancement". Chet Atkins, as he moved more to playing a classic guitar in the late part of his career, used more nail than he did in his early years but he was always cautious about breaking a nail. Lenny Breau had very long nails which gave him a very bright sound although there were times when it sounded thin on electric guitar.

Steel string acoustic flattops and archtops can really chew up your nails if you have them long. Just enough nail to support the flesh seems to work for most people.

If you're playing an electric guitar, a short nail can give you a warm, robust sound if you let the amp take care of the volume while the right hand takes care of the tone.

Regards,
Jerome

[Marty Grass]

Thanks for the info. Flesh on strings makes a grand sound.

I have fragile nails. Strings shred them.

Here's someone who uses giant nails and replaces them as needed. She's one of my favorite players.

I've been using a thumb pick for about six months. There's a definite trade off. There is less dexterity with the thumb pick but still a good amount. The up side is that you should never drop your pick again and you have an extra finger for hybrid work. Here's the pick I use. Fred Kelly makes this one particularly for jazz players.

[artcore]

Classical players must spend years getting the approach they insist is necessary to play difficult passages...and I don't doubt that they are right...I don't have enough years left to master that or the patience...I have tried...I think Monk has it laid out well enough....I have other hobbies and long finger nails would not make it....

[targuit]

This business of guitarists using artificial nails or ping pong balls glued on is such a lot of nonsense in my opinion. All you really need to articulate well with a nylon string guitar in classical technique is a little bit of extra length on the picking hand. These guys destroying their nails and opening themselves up to fungal infections and worse with their artificial crap are looking for trouble.

Jay

[Jonah]

And TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT was used by Wes))))

Rennaissance lute technique for lines also involves TITITI - no nails.... ( imitating plectrum alternate picking) but hand position is different (looks more like George Bensons right hand) - so-called 'thumb-in'. This technique also works great for uke... but for hight-tension metal-strings I am not sure... in this position the touch is too light.

Frankly speaking though I had classical technique for years and can play lines in combinations of i-m-a fingers... I prefer when I play metal strings to use pick ot to play with a thumb only

[online jazz]

I love throwing some wild staccoto single string runs into my fingerpicked blues. I use my thumb and index finger or simply just my thumb.

[Rob22315]

This business of guitarists using artificial nails or ping pong balls glued on is such a lot of nonsense in my opinion. All you really need to articulate well with a nylon string guitar in classical technique is a little bit of extra length on the picking hand. These guys destroying their nails and opening themselves up to fungal infections and worse with their artificial crap are looking for trouble.

Jay

Hate to burst your bubble but the best in the classical guitar business do this. Follow David Russell on facebook. He keeps superglue and pingpong balls in his kit for emergencies.

[Phil in London]

Check this guy out...

amazing technique, and really cool lines...

[stringsalive]

As for the lute questions.... There were schools for and agains nails. It's been the same with guitar until mid 20th century.... Now most players use them, very few don't. In the lute world, most modern players do not use nails, though some prefer them, and there certainly is historic precedent for it.

P-I (t-i as some are calling it) is probably closest to what you are already used to if you flat pick.

[Rob22315]

FWIW, I'm a P-I-M-A guy. I'll use all four for chord comping, most runs I'll do with I-M with the occasion P if I have to drop into the bottom two strings occasionally. I usually use a free stroke (vs rest stroke) for speed and my left hand to control the duration of the note - just unfret the note.

The easiest way to get comfortable with M and A is to do the classical fretboard drills with only those two fingers. Once you've built up the strength and gotten your mind wrapped around having two more fingers to use, it's natural to begin incorporating them in your playing.

[pamosmusic]

Hate to burst your bubble but the best in the classical guitar business do this. Follow David Russell on facebook. He keeps superglue and pingpong balls in his kit for emergencies.

Yup ... ping pong ball is actually the industry standard. Sounds and feels more like real nail then even highest quality fake nails. Weird as it sounds.

Jason Vieaux's fingers are so long that he keeps about and inch of ping pong ball permanently attached to his thumb to even it out with the rest. It looks bizarre

[DirtyGuitar]

This gentlemen has written a book about fingerstyle guitar. It's written in french but that's not a big deal... I am french myself a most a the teaching materials I have is in English!

What about this one?

Here's my favourite!

[lumena]

I understand that Pierre Bensusan can be a bit vague and new-age DADGAD-panchromatic-resonance noodly for some people's tastes. But there is a lot I like about him.

If you are young and single and straight (two categories here I no longer fall into), I advise you to learn some of his tunes; the Romanticism of his compositions seems to have a definite effect on women, particularly good-looking women with long wavy hair and big hoop earrings.

But as I often do, I digress.

Bensusan's right hand technique is interesting.

And I once met and worked with (not musically) a guitarist who pulled together technique borrowings from Ralph Towner and Bensusan to great effect in Jazz work with Brazilian tinges.

Here is Pierre discussing/demonstrating scales and right hand technique:

Although Pierre Bensusan shows briefly how to do the cascade style across the strings it is a bit difficult to see how it's actually done as he is playing pretty fast and even with a video slow down the resolution still makes it difficult.
I am attaching an old scan of a guitar player mag featuring a chet atkins tutorial on this style... for educational purposes only so that the technique is more obvious

[lumena]

As far as Nails go here is good advice from a girl.
All drugstores carry a brand of nail and cuticle strengthener ask the salesperson.

I use one call NutraNail Nailsentials Power Growth Treatment several times a week - one drop on the cuticle and rubbed into the nail - it permeates and then they don't break. Takes a few treatments but you will see an improvement. Best part - costs about $3. NEW! Nutra Nail Gel Perfect UV-FREE Gel-Color is on the bottle although I haven't ever visited their website. All silly glue and acryllic methods will eventually cause problems. Fake nails are really bad for your real nails. Flat wound strings on a jazz guitar are very gentle to work with and if I remember to file every other day then my nails never break - breakage usually means you have let them go and they are ragged. Put the file in your guitar case and make it part of the practice routine.

I can also recommend the Book "Pumping Nylon" by Scott Tennant for lots of good tips about using your fingers. I say this as a fingerstyle and jazz player even though the book is geared toward a classical guitarist.

The exercises in this book are really great for warmups etc. I think used copies are about $4.

Pumping Nylon: The Classical Guitarist's Technique Handbook: Scott Tennant, Nathaniel Gunod: 0038081111148: Amazon.com: Books

For educational purposes of the discussion here are pics of how to shape your nails from "Pumping Nylon" by Scott Tennant.

[mikeSF]

This guy looks like he uses all three.

i liked watching this guy!

[danwaineo]

Thanks for all the videos being posted. I threw away my pick many years ago and primarily alternate index and middle for lines. There were a few reasons for this.

First it felt more musical to hit the string with my finger. The pick always felt awkward. Secondly, I suspect that a flat pick leads you to do things in a guitaristic way (alternate picking and sweep picking). Playing with fingers makes all notes equally easy (or difficult) to hit. The third reason is I really like comping with my fingers, and much prefer the sound. I want my comping and soloing to grow together and playing with my fingers seems like the best way to make that happen.

I also play a lot of bass right now, and it is nice to have the same technique for both instruments. I actually play bass with nails too (they are pretty short). I think I have pretty strong nails.

A lot of fingerpicking players focus on either classical or chord melody. I'm not much interested in ether of these areas. It's nice to see videos of people playing with bands and metal guitar strings.

The downside of fingerpicking is speed, but the guys in these videos play plenty fast to me. I like the John Arman video a lot.

[ecj]

This comes up all the time on the forum. I still haven't heard anyone play bebop in a way that I liked finger style at crisp tempos.

There's a lot of cool classical-crossover stuff, some great interpretations of a more modern sound, but I still haven't heard the guy who can nail the Martino or Benson kind of stuff that I love with fingers.

I guess I just bring that up to say, you might be the one guy to do it, but depending on how you want to sound there might not be a roadmap out there for how to do it. That's why I refuse to give up my pick.

[EOE]

my first instrument was bass. I took classical and flamenco in college.I play the lute also now I do not use nails..I advise studding flamenco and classical. I use a pick sometimes drop it. it all comes natural now I want a tone or effect and my hand does it.

[Fidelcaster]

This comes up all the time on the forum. I still haven't heard anyone play bebop in a way that I liked finger style at crisp tempos.

There's a lot of cool classical-crossover stuff, some great interpretations of a more modern sound, but I still haven't heard the guy who can nail the Martino or Benson kind of stuff that I love with fingers.

I guess I just bring that up to say, you might be the one guy to do it, but depending on how you want to sound there might not be a roadmap out there for how to do it. That's why I refuse to give up my pick.

Try this guy (even if he's too much of a shredder for my taste):

[ecj]

Try this guy (even if he's too much of a shredder for my taste):

This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. What he's doing is pretty cool, but it would be quite a stretch to describe any of his lines as bebop.

I think it's so hard to play the more heavily articulated Tal Farlow or Martino style lines with the fingers that everyone uses a huge amount of slurring which ends up creating what is, to my ears, a much weaker, less defined line. There are some folks out there doing Metheny-style playing with fingers that are great, but it's a whole different thing than the classic bebop sound.

[Shadow of the Sun]

People are talking about lute picking in this thread, and I think a video would help my understanding, but I haven't found anyone an informative video for lute picking that was authentic- the only one I saw was a guy on bass.

[Fidelcaster]

This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. What he's doing is pretty cool, but it would be quite a stretch to describe any of his lines as bebop.

I think it's so hard to play the more heavily articulated Tal Farlow or Martino style lines with the fingers that everyone uses a huge amount of slurring which ends up creating what is, to my ears, a much weaker, less defined line. There are some folks out there doing Metheny-style playing with fingers that are great, but it's a whole different thing than the classic bebop sound.

I see what you mean. Perhaps this guy is on the right track?

I wonder if developing a strong rest stroke technique might confer the articulation you are rightly referring to: