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Originally Posted by Irez87
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09-04-2015 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Irez87
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Originally Posted by MatsP
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Originally Posted by ChrisDowning
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jZucker - i was just referring back to some lessons I had on Bluegrass guitar by Steve Kaufman, Russ Barenberg, and others at Steve Kaufman's Summer Kamp. When these guys at their level of playing are saying post or rest your third or forth finger on the scratchguard and then move your whole arm through the string there must be something in that worth listening to. Likewise players like Jimmy Bruno and Larry Coryell (and more) also have done DVDs where they talk about picking - again worth listening to these guys because they are oit there doing it at the top of the profession.
My experieces were based on 11 years of full time teaching, mostly raw beginners who really struggle with the mechanics of just getting the notes played. So when Steve Kaufman talks about playing from the elbow he is taking a lot of the loosnee out ofthe pick hand - the rolling of the forearm up and down, extreme flexing of the wrist up and down and in and out. You be surprised at the way beginners get into all sorts of strange actions within the first week if not guided towards what more advanced players take for granted.
This thread contains most of what you need to know about arm and wrist action in it. I just read it from end to end (wish I hadn't showboated at one point - I must come off as a real arse!) anyway, its all in the text here - the basics, the adjustmenst, and the pragmatic way we all mix these up in the end to get what we want from the guitar tone and getting the notes in the right place.
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Originally Posted by ChrisDowning
Last edited by MatsP; 09-05-2015 at 05:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by MatsP
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Here's a good explanation that I found regarding Steve Kaufman's (and inherently Jimmy Bruno's) technique. The "rotational action" of the wrist is to me merely the movement of the wrist from the tension of the strings, nothing more:
"One of the best bluegrass pickers and teachers I know of (Steve Kaufman) relates picking a guitar to a violinist's action of moving bow against strings. There is the action from the elbow, a small action of the wrist, and a little rotational action of the wrist as well."
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Originally Posted by MatsP
The only reason I play from the elbow is due to a spinal injury. Otherwise, I'd be a wrist player. Yes, it may be easier and more accurate to sweep or economy pick from the elbow but the core of swing playing is alternate picking. IMO of course.
And incidentally, i studied with Dennis Sandole, the consummate elbow-picking-advocate.Last edited by jzucker; 09-05-2015 at 08:18 AM.
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Originally Posted by MatsP
Last edited by jzucker; 09-05-2015 at 08:48 AM.
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All I gotta say, as with everything technical on the ol cigar box:
1. BE AWARE OF TENSION you don't want f up your arm or wrist or what have you
2. Listen to the study and make it musical. Use dynamics, tempo change, register change, key change. Make it musical so you can HEAR how it is supposed to SOUND and use it on the band stand. Sorry, just venting. The goal with all of this, is to be musical. Even Mr. Sheets of Sound Zucker over would agree (right, c'mon back me up here )
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by Irez87
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Originally Posted by MatsP
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Sorry to drag Troy Grady into everything- but he's definitely releasing a feature on Jimmy Bruno's picking sometime in the future, so that will probably help clear things up, too.
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Originally Posted by MatsP
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anyway, i love jimmy and his elbow picking and economy picking work great for him. All I'm saying is that it's not the only way. Every great player does it differently. So if you look at any of them in isolation it's a mistake.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Last edited by MatsP; 09-06-2015 at 11:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Last edited by MatsP; 09-06-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by MatsP
Last edited by MatsP; 09-06-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by MatsP
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Originally Posted by MatsP
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When using Jimmy Bruno’s “elbow technique”, I notice that I keep insisting on moving my wrist when I shouldn’t. A hell of a lot of re-learning is required, that’s for sure. But I can see the benefits. When doing really fast tremolo, you hardly move your wrist, but rather move the elbow together with a relatively firm wrist, so why not do it at slower speeds at well? That’s how I view the whole thing. Others may disagree.
Last edited by MatsP; 09-06-2015 at 11:52 AM.
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I was very, very good at picking from the elbow when I was much younger. I had a teacher who swore up and down ( pun intended), that was the best most effective way. He said I was the best of his long line of students at this. I got great speed, but my accuracy, or rather fluid sound, was compromised. Elbow sounded rough. Maybe I needed to hone the skills more. But when I quit and had gone instead to the wrist I haven't had the speed I had with the elbow, but I gained a more fluid sound and could swing better.
Obviously Bruno. Tal and many others swing with the elbow. But there's a certain sound. Rough around the edges to my ears.
What I SHOULD HAVE DONE was to not given up on the elbow but rather work on developing the wrist in addition. Now I just can't seem to play at my blistering speed. I don't think I could have swung from the elbow. I recognize that sound and I don't like it. But ripping or going at ridiculous almost avant-garde tempos is where it would come in as useful.
Ach . . .
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