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Well, you also have the body and neck makers like warmoth and several others in the us that seem well established.
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05-02-2024 02:43 PM
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Also there’s MusicMan, you use some Big Names and an American made high end line. It’s not all the big two.
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Also the vibe I get is that the proper electric session players go for PRS (because they intonate really well apparently) and Suhr. Suhr is another proper US maker of course. Collings too, quite popular where musicians can afford one (which is not super often lol) and more desirable in the players community than anything Gibson is putting out I wound say.
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So even good paying gigs pay the same as 25 years ago. And that’s not a livable wage any longer. Well it was hardly livable back then as well, Lol!
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Quite surprised not any mention of Benedetto Guitars in Savannah, GA. I don't recall the word "affordable" in the OP.
A real American success story. Many younger artists playing the instruments and famous endorsers. From all reports I hear they have no trouble selling their product.
The least expensive guitar on the website around $5600 for a Bambino. Every one I've ever encountered has been a top notch, versatile instrument beautifully crafted.
I realize I'm biased, and $5600 is a hunk of change, however it is further evidence that American craftmanship is still shining bright.
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Some feel nationalist pride over good guitars being made in their country. That's OK. If it works for wine and cheese and watches, should work for guitars.
Then there is the 'representative of national quality standards..'. Yes. Collings are great and consistent. However, Ford, GM, and Boeing, not so much.
Finally, guitar making as an analog for the ability of a national manufacturing base to stand up to the pressures of globalization.. don't think it's the sort of industry that maps well to global trends. Guitars have a lot to do with perception and many, especially bound-to-tradition jazz players, have a lot of emotion invested in their choices.
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I have a 1997 Lonestar Strat which is Made in USA so I don't know what year they changed. Some models may still qualify for Made in USA.Last edited by Banksia; 05-03-2024 at 01:12 AM.
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I have a Fender Precision bass that I bought about 14 years ago that says "Made in USA."
I have a Fender Jazz bass I bought in 2022 that says "Corona, California."
Looks like there were efforts to update the standard going on in 2020, but I haven't found an actual date for the change.
I understand why you wouldn't want a product that was only 51% US made to be labeled made in USA, but it looks like it was raised to a rather subjective of "all or almost all" made in the USA to qualify. I'm not convinced they are just assembling foreign made parts and pieces in Corona or Nashville ... or Stevensville, MD, but I can see allowing a small percentage of the little parts and pieces that may be better done elsewhere like electronics or tuners or fret wire.
Call it nationalistic if you want, but I see buying stuff made in your home country as an extension of buying locally and spending my money in ways that help my "neighbors." You can't always do that, but if you can I'm willing to consider it.
From another perspective American guitars may be kind of like Italian violins.
A friend of mine was backpacking her way through Europe in her youth and ended up working briefly for an American making violins in Italy. She asked him why he didn't return home and make his violins back in his hometown in the US. He told her he can sell his violins for more money if he makes them in Italy.
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Originally Posted by SierraTango
In a 2020 interview the CEO of Benedetto said they only make about 100 guitars a year and they were aiming for 120.
So you are right. They are an existing USA guitar maker but I think the overall context of this thread talks about larger-scale production. For instance, back in 1960 Gibson canned the unsuccessful Les Paul model because they were only selling 600/year. Even back in the 50s when the White Falcon was the most expensive guitar on the market, Gretsch made them in batches of 50 or 100. Benedetto is making 100 units across 10 different models.Last edited by Banksia; 05-04-2024 at 02:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bluedawg
From another perspective American guitars may be kind of like Italian violins.
A friend of mine was backpacking her way through Europe in her youth and ended up working briefly for an American making violins in Italy. She asked him why he didn't return home and make his violins back in his hometown in the US. He told her he can sell his violins for more money if he makes them in Italy.
But comparing customs in the classical music/instruments universe with those in popular music remains tricky. There may be proportionally more "fiddlers" in the US than in Europe but I would expect there must be at least a comparable amount of classical violin players (plus ditto viola & cello players), and all of those will be looking for instruments built in European tradition. Maybe it's just that guitars are an exception among US-made products in that they're not less expensive than the same products made elsewhere?
An interesting counter example, well known in these parts: [url=https://jedistar.com/trenier-guitars/]Bryant Trenier[/ul]. I'm unclear on his personal background (family name is clearly French) or where he started initially, but he apparently studied in the Czech republic (a somewhat surprising choice?), then moved (back?) to the US before settling in the south of France. He doesn't seem to be building (or charging) less.
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i like USA made guitars for a number of reason mostly because when i was younger i had cheaper imports and the first USA made guitar i gought i went WOW this is nice. it was used a long gone but it stck with me.
i have own a number of imports i they nevr grown on me.
i have a very nice ibanez prestige made in Japan and it is super nice has a nice neck but i would rather play a tele
the one that got away was a old 175 with p-90s i loved that guitar sold it when i moved here i allways though it would get another but never have.
i also like supporting the made in USA when i can. having said that i would 100% buy a guitar made elswhere if it was what i wanted.
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Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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Originally Posted by m_d
I have played some fine Japanese and European archtop guitars, but none that eclipsed the American offerings, so all of my archtops were made in the USA.
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I don't think USA built guitars will go away, but perhaps there may be less per year built.....
and that may be a GOOD thing. Let's keep the quality of the woods and the build as high as we expect.
Sometimes less is more.....
(just like my noodling on said instrument)
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(why didn't I buy a Colling's back when? I even toured the factory and met the man himself)
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I'm going to say something that may ruffle some feathers again but Japan to me felt like a full-scale experimentation of a conservative society - from manners to buying habits to even pervasive spirituality. An overall very peaceful and refreshing experience. All those values that we keep hearing are passé, reactionary and dangerous, actually work and allow for a creative, prosperous and dynamic economy, who would have thought? Buying habits: virtually all cars are Japanese, like most people don't even think twice. In big cities, a few luxury (mostly German) cars are rare exceptions. Their cars somehow qualify as "best" anyway because all will be well engineered and built however modest; hence they rarely turn to foreign cars. They have that privilege of having retained an industrial base and an engineering culture, which we have declared to be no longer worthy of or our labor or our high environmental conscience (no apparent EV craze by the way... maybe as they're not considered viable?). Spiritual: temples and shrines everywhere, visited by people of all walks of life, from cashier to CEO, young and old. In a historical cemetary we visiting, large companies e.g. Panasonic, had mausoleums dedicated to their retired and deceased workers for making their success possible (one can get the gist of the dedications thanks to Google Translate) ; very moving to see. I'm rambling.
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Originally Posted by m_d
(My implied point and to keep with the flow: it's probably safe to say that Japan does "American" cars and bikes better than the US, nowadays O:-) )
I'm going to say something that may ruffle some feathers again but Japan to me felt like a full-scale experimentation of a conservative society - from manners to buying habits to even pervasive spirituality. An overall very peaceful and refreshing experience.
What's certainly refreshing is that they can be spiritual without bothering anyone else with it, they tend not to permeate their forum posts with it for instance. (Well, refreshing after a number of years on non-science/tech related forums...)
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(Originally by pan60)---
LOL just finding one in my neck of the woods isnt so easy. i was chating with a friend and he said he ended up doing mail order for his last fender.
as for gibson i dont know of a gibson dealer around here?Where's "[your] neck of the woods"? There are a lot fewer musical instrument stores than there used to be, but the reduction in storefronts has been typical of much of American retail. You have to remember that stores are in business to make money and they're not going to stock expensive items that no one wants to buy - they can't afford to tie up their capital in what amounts to vanity stock.
At least high-quality instruments are easily available now, though they're not necessarily available for in-person auditioning. When I was young and living in northwestern Pennsylvania, one had to travel to Cleveland or Pittsburgh to find availability of certain types of instruments. Now you can just find one on the internet and it will be on your doorstep in a few days.
It isn't as convenient as local store stocking of instruments, but at least they're available.
i dont live in or near a large city
yes i know store have to make money i ran ny own a music store for years.
the fact that they cant make money on high end / vanity stock i find hard to beleave but it goes to just how much the time have changed.
mom and pop shops cant compeat with the mail order easily and that in and of itself force them to sell a lower cost product. finding an import that is quality and at a lower price point allows them to maybe keep some of their custimer base?
how ever when i ran my stor i only sold high end guitar i had a fraction of the walking trafic the store down the road had but i still did good.
has for availability i do see just the same.
first off i havent traved to a larger city i many many years and honestly dont plan to. i have no interst.
i like to handle a guitar before i buy i want to play ten or twenty and want some options not just take this roaswood sab sunburst strat made in mexico when i want a fiesta red maple cap made in the USA. or mabe i settle for the surf green because it feels better?
i have no plans to mail order.
i dont need a new guitar how ever i do still buy guitars mostly used because i cant find nes one in any of the stores and as mention i have interst in mail order.
so at the end of the day for me the USA made guitar is for all practical purposes is dead or at minimum near death.
that may not be the case for some of my dear freind in LA, NY or Chicago but it is what it is for me
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Originally Posted by deacon Mark
I'm not sure if South Korea can ever become what the US is to guitars. The USA-made premium is partly due to the US being the literal birthplace of the most famous guitars in history. Leo Fender didn't open his shop in Seoul or Shenzhen. That said, whether this will matter to people in 20 or 50 years is up for debate.
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Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
Belgian beer culture is really something apart, hard to really experience anywhere but locally because of limited production and distribution.
the US being the literal birthplace of some of the most famous guitars in history.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Doug
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Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
I am a huge Belgian fan and have only encountered one Belgian ale that I didn’t like—unfortunately I can’t remember which one!
As far as guitars, the fit and finish on Korean guitars is (IME) usually excellent, though the electronics often leave something to be desired. Japan is a step up in terms of quality, and the electronics are on par with the manufacture.
Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
Economic nationalism—which I think you mean “buy in your own country”—is fine as long as it doesn’t veer into mercantilism and state management of the economy. Which unfortunately it has a tendency to do when implemented by politicians.
Adam Smith laid it out well 250 years ago. How do nations acquire wealth? By producing certain things that their people and environment allow them to do well. Americans are obviously good at producing high quality archtops and some solid bodies. Clearly they aren’t as suited for making cheaper guitars.
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But…the Italians didn’t invent the guitar. That honor seems to belong to the Spanish, who were making similar instruments in the 1500s. The oldest known guitar still in existence is this 1590 Portuguese guitar, currently on display at the MIM in Phoenix.
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I like Chinese archtops. I have six of them and can't see me parting with any. I also have expensive Gibson's that I like. I don't think there are any better sounding electric archtops than the L5 and ES175. And then there's my nice utility Korean made D'Angelico. And Japanese Fender and Alvarez Yairi, many US made flat tops, and a few guitars that I have no idea where they were made.
Why should I mix the political interests of the US with my guitar buying? Because.. it will make any difference to the world order? Because it will restore my faith in US politics as being something other than a self serving bog of mendacity? Because.. that'll show them.. whoever 'them' is.
Nope. I'm a capitalist and libertarian. Show me a good value that doesn't duplicate something I already have and I'll see if I can't make room for it.
Cheap floating humbuckers
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