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I'm trying to choose a pickup for my 7 string 335. I play jazz and want a warm dark round sound. I was chatting with a guy at Seymour Duncan and he suggested that having a Seymour Duncan 59 custom made with alnico 2 magnets would give a more spongy treble. It's been commented here that it would provide a more syrupy treble. I know it's hard to describe sounds with words but I don't get a clear picture from the guy at Seymour Duncan and wondered if anybody here actually has experience with comparing the two kinds of magnet. Thanks so much.
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03-28-2024 11:11 AM
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I've never compared them side to side but I was looking for a mellow Telecaster neck pickup a few years back, I settled on SD Alnico 2 pro. The alnico 2's had the reputation of having a softer treble sound and warmer tone overall. It didn't disappoint.
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Yeah Alnico 2 is usually warmer and creamier i.e "syrupy" and more mellow on the top end. Alnico 5 is usually a little more aggressive with more bite, but don't overthink it. The pickup design itself will play into things. You have tone controls and amp EQ. If you want real soft and warm Alnico 3 but I think they are avoided for a reason, probably because they can get muddy fast. But for the right player it might be a good choice.
Here's the curveball, you can mix and match magnets. Alnico 2 and 5 or Alnico 3 and 5. I like Alnico 2 mostly but I do have some other pickups. You can't write a pickup off on the magnets alone.
Maybe worth a mention as an example: I have Alnico 2 57 classics. I have Alnico 2 Seth Lovers. The Seth's work good in my dark LP but not so much in the ES, which is a brighter guitar. The Seths are MUCH brighter, even with the same magnet type. Every pickup swap is going to be a roll of the dice and your playing style, rig, and settings will factor into it so it's easy to get carried away chasing things. Good luck!
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I recently switched from A5/8.9k (both neck and bridge) to A2/7.2k (N) A2/8.3k (B) in my semi-hollow. The A5 pickups had a spikier/harder attach and a more scooped (i.e., more bottom and top, less mids) sound overall. The A2 pickups have more mid range, and a softer attack, coupled with there just being kind of more of everything (frequencies, touch sensitivity, volume (despite lower DC resistance)). "Spongier" (but in a good way) is not a bad way to describe the difference. This is changing a lot of factors besides just the magnets, though (DC resistance, potted (old) vs unpotted (new), maybe some hardware/parts differences). So I'm not sure how much is due to the magnets vs the other factors, but no question the pickups sound different.
Originally Posted by voyage
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I have swapped magnets in a few pickups. First, it must be understood that there's more to a pickup than just the magnet. And there's more to a magnet than just the alloy, for example if the magnet is polished or rough cast, its size (there are long and short humbucker magnets) and not least, magnetic strength (Gauss). Some pickup magnets are degaussed on purpose and thereby become less sensitive.
But in general we can make the following observations:
A2 are somewhat less sensitive compared to A5 and A2 got a flatter EQ response compared to A5 that is more scooped.
One way to describe it is that there's more of everything in an A5 magnet; more volume, more bass and more treble.
We could turn that argument and claim that the A2 magnet got more Mids, which arguably is correct.
From a practical perspective it means that you may find that A5 works better with certain guitars, amps and speakers and vv.
I personally use both A5 and A2 in my humbucker guitars. I also got guitars with single coils, P-90 as well as Fender, those are all A5.
In general I prefer A5 for cleans tones, because of clarity. But on the flip side they could get boomy, and edgy, so you need to carefully adjust your pickups and use your volume and tone controls.
If you have a hard time dialing out the mid scoop in an amp (I've been there) then A2 could be your ticket.
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The others have it correct. A5 has a little more output than A2, it has high bass and treble, and scooped mids. Sounds hi-fi and glossy. A2 still has a reasonable amount of low bass and treble but has the mids all filled in generously, and sounds softer and more vintage overall with a chewy attack.
I would recommend sticking with the 59 as it is the warmest, darkest, and roundest in the SD line, and just swapping the magnet yourself. Rather than paying $200 for a custom one, or $100 for a new stock pickup.
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What pickups do you have now? Originally Posted by voyage
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I would be careful when asking for advice from companies on jazz related topics - it's not that they're not knowledgeable, they are, but in these bigger companies it's very rare that you find someone that knows what a good jazz tones is and exactly what you're describing. You'll usually get a blues/rock perspective of what a jazz tone is, which can be quite different - a good example this is seeing what people call a "clean tone" on The Gear Page.
Also, in all the gear I've tried, I've always found very difficult to correlate sound descriptions to the actual sound, mainly in pickups and speakers - sometimes the description seems exactly what you want, and it's not. There's quite a lot of trial and error on that process and changing pickups is not easy or quick or cheap, unless you do it yourself.
As for the topic described the only actual experience that counts is someone who's had the exact same pickup and only changed the magnets, which I believe some people here have done. Just changing from an A2 to an A5, or vice-versa, but with different pickups (even if in the same category, like a PAF) is misleading because other factors have changed apart from the magnets.
Saying that, my main complaint with humbuckers and archtops is usually the muddy bass - and I've found A5 to behave better than A2 in that department, although now I have an A2 (the Slash one from SD) that has a very tight and clear bass. I have not noticed that much difference in the treble and even when the treble is indeed sweeter a lot ot the times the sound becomes muddier with A2s. So you might solve on problem and create another (if you go to the SD forum you'll see it's very common for people with Les Paul to change the neck humbucker magnet from A2 to A5, precisely because of that).
I've also found not all 335s can give you a good rond jazz tone, even when changing the pickups.
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^ If you want jazzy tone but less bass than A2 and A5, try A3.
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I've found what you are saying to be very true. Talking to a guy at Seymour Duncan he would say you could do this, but if you do that it would be better, but if you do this other thing that would be better, and on and on, and I never got the feeling that the words he was using necessarily match the sound in my head at all. It is a crap shoot. I have three guitars I'm trying to get great tone in to match what is in my head. An Edwards seven string 335, An Eastman Elite 16-7, and a Grote seven string semi hollow. I have ordered 2 59s, a Benedetto B7, and I'm going to order a 59 with alNico 2. I'll post here when I've compared everything. Might take a year.
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That's a cool tip, might have to try it. But on that department I'm very happy with my current SD. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Yeah- A3 is even more mid-focused than A2. I want a set of A3s for my tele. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Sounds like it might be getting close to p90s.
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I bought a Tokai firebird with Creamery vintage style fb pickups. The original owner had chosen an a2 lower DCR in the neck and an a5 higher DCR in the bridge.
The neck was too flutely and the bridge ear splitting.
I swapped them over, lowered the, now, a5 in the neck as far as I could and raised the, now, a2 in the bridge as high as I could.
I've got a perfect balance and a much less extreme contrast in the 2 pickups now.
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That's very common on Les Paul users, A5 on the neck, A2 on the bridge. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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Yes. I couldn't understand why the previous owner chose the way they did. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I would have thought the pickup winder would have suggested it wasnt a good idea. May be the guy ignored the advice.
Who knows?!!
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Ah ah, I don't understand it either. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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I hope I'm not discouraging you, gear can be a fun road but also expensive and frustrating - it took me a while to get the gear for the sound I had in my head. Ultimately, there's no substitute for trial and error and maybe a little luck. Hope you get the sound you want! Originally Posted by voyage
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You can quit being obstinate and listen to people who effing know what they're talking about because they teched heavily for years! Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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A3? Nah... it's still unmistakably pole magnet/telecaster sounding. Bar magnets (P90s) are a whole 'nuther thing. (Plus, with a P90 you've got a larger bobbin which changes the magnetic field and now we're getting into physics LOL). I've read alot about the first telecasters ("Broadcaster" then "Nocaster"), and alot of them were A3. They had more balls than later models of the telecaster. People especially liked the A3 bridge pickup as it was rounder than A5 that fender eventually moved to. I think alot of the after-market "Broadcaster" pickups are A3. Originally Posted by voyage
Think about it: Fender was looking for "clean" tones. The tweeds were mid heavy. The browns/blondes were more neutral. Then with the blackface amps they went scooped. All in an effort to get cleaner. Same for the pickups: A3 is more mid-heavy, A5 is more scooped.
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I'm not sure it's that simple. I found what works for me, it might help others, but it might not. Tone is very personal... By that logic anyone would get a great tone, just emulate what experienced players do Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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^ There's this thing called communication where the person tone seeking says what they want to achieve, and the veteran says well I'd recommend you try this and this and this. This gives the tone seeker a set of options that will be more likely to be to his liking than dicking around.
Then get this.. after the tone seeker tries some stuff they can, gasp, communicate further! 'Hey, I tried a couple things and I kind of liked it but I want more of this.' 'Ok, you could try doing this and this.'
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Why the hostility? Everyone is on their own "tone journey", and yes sometimes trying it for yourself is the only way to know. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's all just experience. And that's one of the things life is about- experiencing and learning. Sure, I can learn how to rebuild a carburetor by watching a YouTube video, but I can REALLY KNOW how to rebuild one by doing it. Polling for information on a forum is a common first step. The next steps are up to the individual. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
If he wants to "dick around", it's no skin off your nose.
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The obstinance is just strange to me. 'I want a warm, dark, round sound.' Ok, wire in a $5 200k volume pot. Job done. But they will not do it lol.
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That might give you a dark sound, not necessarily warm and round. Again, I (and many others) wish it was that simple. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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