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With the new solid state technology, it seems like it would be easy to duplicate a Twin Reverb circuit in an all-analog solid state micro-head. We've recently discussed in some other threads how other amp's EQ knobs adjust frequencies differently than the favored-by-some Fender circuits.
Has anyone made a 1-for-1 analog solid state equivalent of a Twin Reverb? If not, why not?
I wish Fender would release some micro heads that compete with Quilter.Last edited by markesquire; 03-07-2024 at 03:51 PM.
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03-07-2024 03:21 PM
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Well there is the Fender Twin Tone Master? For me the Quilter Aviator original and Tone Block 202 do the trick,especially the Clean Tone as a platform for my various pedals.
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I think the Tone Master series is interesting and sounds good. I'm thinking of something that's all analog (durabilty vs. a computer), and as a micro-head. My understanding is that the Quilter sound is similar to a generalized Fender-ish sound, but not a one-to-one similar circuit.
Wondering if a near-identical circuit could be done in solid state.
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How exactly would that be a duplicate though?
Originally Posted by markesquire
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The Fender tone circuit has been copied many times by DIYers. Originally Posted by markesquire
Here's a design using jfets not valves.
The DIY Fetzer Valve
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It's not easy to engineer an analog SS circuit that replicates the behavior of a classic tube amp. Arguably a few companies have succeeded (e.g., Quilter, Peavey, Tech 21), and class-D amps make it possible to put a lot of power into a small package. But the majority of builders have found it more practical to model circuits digitally. Fender tried for decades to make analog SS amps that sounded like their tube amps without success. The fact that they've gone digital speaks volumes. Originally Posted by markesquire
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I recently got the chance to try a Quilter. It sounds absolutely nothing like any Fender I ever tried. So "arguably" is a stretch, and that's putting it nicely. Maybe it was the cab but man it sounded absolutely nothing like a Twin and those are all I play. Originally Posted by John A.
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Some models do, and some don’t. Which one did you play? I have an Aviator Cub, and it does a fair approximation of a tweed and Deluxe. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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Like trying to copy a V8 DOHC automobile engine with a rotor, stator and magnets
It just won't sound the same....
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101 Reverb I think. It was giving me hell trying to dial it in which is not Twin like at all IME. I see Quilter claims it sounds like a blackface. Maybe I should've just dimed the treble like I do on my own amps to see what would happen but I didn't want to get carried away at a jam. That would pretty much tell me what the reality was though and I would definitely treat a tone-master the same way, likely to my own disappointment. They say decreasing mids gives it that BF sound on the website. Did that and the only resemblance was it made sound. Either there was too much gain or too little, I couldn't find a happy medium. I will say it did sound passable enough out in the audience but terrible to me on stage. And that solid state stiffness was obvious so there is no blaming the cab/speaker. I was more impressed with the older Roland Cube on the blackface setting,, which also sounded passable in the audience but had some solid state harshness in the high end to the player on stage. Originally Posted by John A.
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The Quilter 101 is a terrible head, IMO. I bought both the original and the reverb with the normal (sort of) tonestack, and I sold both rather quickly. I could not get a sound I liked out of either, just nasal honk. OTOH, the Soundblock US is a great-sounding head, whichever cabinet I've tried. It's far more Fendery.
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The 101 is the worst model imo. Try a Tone Block 202 or one of the older Aviator combos. While not an exact replica of a Twin Reverb, I actually prefer the Clean Tone it has!
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While not modeled exactly like a Fender Twin, but more than adequate for huge clean sounds, I dig the DV Mark 'Raw Dawg' Eric Gales head.
150 watts at 8 ohms and 250 watts at 4 ohms can get into the blackface Twin territory very easily in my view. Plus it sounds great with pedals if that's what your gig calls for.
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Yeah, I tried one of those and couldn't get a sound I liked out of it. The SuperBlock and Aviator Cub (which are the same pre-amp, with different power sections), both sound better. The gain and tone controls are much more useable. I've used it on both blues and jazz gigs and been quite happy. Originally Posted by DawgBone
Last edited by John A.; 03-08-2024 at 08:42 AM.
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You'd think that software Amp Sims could easily do a Blackface amp, but the major on going problem is that the vast majority of Amp Sims I've heard don't do clean very well, as usual, they are mainly aimed for the distorted rock sound.
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Somehow I knew you guys would say that's the worst model, lol.
I have no real personal interest in solid state stuff but after all the people I've seen talk Quilter it was pretty underwhelming and wouldn't make me very interested to try the other models. If it's a flight date I'd probably just try and arrange a Twin on the other end of the line which I would think is doable. If I couldn't then I don't really know what I'd do. Maybe tell them I only fly on the interstate, lol. The Twin is pretty much my lifetime rig. It's worth the weight to me. Big weight, big sound. Clean, warm, reliable, loud. I have played everything from full volume shows on 10 to 12x12 bedroom sized rooms with it down around 3 or 4 through an OD. Once you get it to about 6 on the knob she really starts to sing. Pick lightly. Volume restrictions at a lot of gigs really have contributed to the loss of band dynamics in a lot of groups and situations nowadays. A guitarist should have the clean headroom to get on top of the band anytime it's needed.
If I was getting a low volume, light weight amp for gigs I'd reach for a Super Reverb because just about everything is light weight and low volume compared to a 85-95lbs Twin.
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I haven't played on a stage where I could turn a Twin up to 6 in decades (if ever). I have rarely played in venues where the management wasn't constantly nagging the band to turn down, and I've been playing out off and on since 1980. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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Well, that max volume date is next weekend for me. There are some joints in Austin where city dB restrictions get club magagement to say "turn down if you see police" but want the volume higher to draw in patrons because you are competing with multiple bands on the same block. It would really suck to hear the band two doors down over the top of my own group. Next week's date the owner has given me carte blanche to do whatever I want for the past several years because it makes him money. For some strange reason I have become his favorite act. I work hard. I always do a two hour first set, sometimes longer, at every gig. I have lost a few musicians over that. They didn't want to work. I'm not letting anyone leave with the 45 minute set then break time stuff. I'm just getting warmed up at that point and the night goes quicker if I just keep playing. And I need money. It's the Austin way. If there are people there, as soon as you set the guitar down, they aren't there any more. Originally Posted by John A.
I have found many times when the dollars are flowing all of a sudden it isn't as loud and management complaints are drown out by shuffling greenbacks at the bar. Sending people to the bar to tell management about how they like the band has resulted in them drowning out the few complainers on a couple different occassions. There have been a few clubs I just quit because they had unrealistic volume expectations and their greenness with regard to live music stage volume was evident, especially one or two outdoor gigs. Acoustic drums are loud. unless it's brushes or those rod sticks. If that is too loud for your club, invest in a jukebox. Most club owners know nothing about running a club with live music IME. A few years in the business has given me the ability to detect it pretty quickly and make future booking decisions from there.
Play dynamically as a group and you can trick many ears into thinking it's acceptable. It's not too loud if I bring it down, then up, then down again. You'd have to catch management during a loud part for your claim to be valid, haha.
Sorry to digress, just some thoughts. SXSW starts today and I'm headed down there later to try and make a buck.
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I recently picked up a Quilter Mach 3 Combo. It does Fender tube amp tone and feel close enough for jazz (and for me!). I have A/B'd it to a Tonemaster Twin and I prefer the Quilter. As does my 66 year old back.
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My back starts to hurt just thinking about an actual Twin Reverb amp. Put a pair of JBL's in that amp and I will start reaching for the Ibuprofen.
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Dawg Bone try the Tone Block 202 before you give up. It’s definitely loud as a Twin Reverb and has better Clean Headroom. It’s 200 watts and believe me I love Loud Clean,Lol!
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I've been playing a Milkman 100 amp head lately for the most part. When the band is quiet enough and I don't need to walk far, I take a Princeton Reverb clone. But when I need more headroom i'm using the Milkman. Unlike the henriksen, it doesn't require pedals in front to get good reverb, eq, and tube-like warmth. In fact the milkman has a tube preamp circuit with a 12ax7.
The Milkman has a fendery sound both in the EQ and the Reverb. The beauty of this tiny portable head is that it's given me freedom to try different cabs.
Earlier this week I took a Mesa Boogie 210 cab with two jupiter 10" speakers (one alnico, one ceramic). Well I gotta say this is a PHENOMENAL rig. It's not particularly light (the loaded cab is 30 lbs) but it's much lighter than my Vibrolux and is very close sonically.
I much prefer the milkman over the quilter amps I've tried (super block, 101, aviator) simply because they have a fuller sound. I have not tried the Mach 3 but that also seems like a great amp based on reviews I've heard from credible players.
I'm not really tempted by any other solid state amp since trying the milkman.
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I'll also add I have a ton of optimism for Quilter, because they recently acquired the manufacturer of one of the best reverb pedals on the market, Neunaber. I'm excited for Quilter to incorporate this in their circuitry because I'm not crazy about the onboard reverb on their amps.
My wishlist for quilter:
- Improve the reverb
- Continue improving the tone stack to remove harshness and thinness of some of the lower wattage models
- Use higher quality cabinets. Solid pine would be great and consistent with the fender vibe
- Use different knobs and redesign the panels. I can't stand the cheap feel of Quilters' knobs even when I like the sound.
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Appreciate that but I'm not shopping, I just plugged into it at a jam session. For the record my kid used his I-Phone dB meter to clock my JBL loaded Twiin with the transients running as high as 129dB at about a foot from the speakers. Not sure how accurate it is but it gives you the idea. LOUD. Originally Posted by jads57
As for Reverb, I have a Meris Mercury 7 which is absolutely amazing and amazingly adjustable (if you take the time to learn it) when played cleanly but still imparts the same horrible digital harshness to the highs with gain that I noticed 25 years ago through an early digital Guyatone unit. I owned a Fender RI tank for a while so pretty much everything is second best to my ears after that, save for some original Fender tanks and some high dollar custom units.
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Maybe. I guess it would be nice to have spring reverb emulation or a choice between spring and hall. But it’s functional. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
I don’t hear harshness in the Aviator Cub. I don’t find it brighter or ice-pickier than the Fender amps it emulates, and find the tone controls to work well. The 101r I tried just sounded dull/dead with no upper end sparkle, so to my ears its problem was absence of presence, not harshness. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
At the same price, sure. But I wouldn’t want to mess with the value proposition of the AC Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
<shrug> They’re knobs. They turn. They point at numbers and change the way things sound. They don’t seem to be in any obvious danger of disintegrating. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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I bought a Quilter Aviator Cub after reading rave reviews and at first I was impressed by the volume and headroom for such a lightweight combo but was not immediately impressed by the tone. The first thing I attempted to do was to dial in a Princeton type tone but struggled to do so.... until I fired up my Princeton and did a side by side with an A/B pedal. For some reason I needed to hear the Fender in order to cop a similar tone but I felt there was still something lacking. I did some digging and saw a post from a guy that recommended using Y-cord to utilize two inputs instead of one and viola, there it was. So now, using a Y-cord the amp is everything I was hoping for and more because it also has, IMO, a fantastic breakup tone that's better than any Fender that I have ever played. The Cub also takes pedals very well and better with the Y-cord.
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