This really does have to do with gear (in a round about way)

[Jim Soloway]

I've gotten used to a 24" scale length for playing in standard pitch but I was never quite able to get the recorded sound I wanted out of my Mustang regardless of what I did to customize it. After reading the current thread here on Lora and her builders in China, I was considering a custom archtop from Wu or Yunzhi to cover the need but then I tried simplifying the mixing process with my most recent mustang recording, getting rid of a bunch of plug-ins. All of a sudden it's really close to the sound I was looking for. So the question now is whether I really need an archtop at all? Would really sound significantly better than this?

PrequelTest-02-11-2024-MasterBoost | Whyp

[AllanAllen]

That’s beautiful. I would change nothing.

[st.bede]

I do not know how close to perfect you need to get. That seemed close to me, and I listened using some crappy beats headphones that eats the lows, and make everything sound fatiguing.

My first thought was, how can you make a Mustage sound that good, and should I go and buy one?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

"Perfect" is the enemy of "great", Jim. At some point, you either have to find happiness or accept being addicted to the chase.

[supersoul]

It sounds great to me. I like the unprocessed sound, because there is less between your playing and my ears.
Is it just direct with a touch of reverb?

[Jim Soloway]

I do not know how close to perfect you need to get. That seemed close to me, and I listened using some crappy beats headphones that eats the lows, and make everything sound fatiguing.

My first thought was, how can you make a Mustage sound that good, and should I go and buy one?

Thanks. The only original parts left are the body, the bridge and the control plate, so it's not really a Mustang any more (although it does still have the 24" scale length). It has a Fralin hum cancelling P90 (with no bridge pickup), a custom neck from Tonebomb in Calgary Alberta that's roasted maple with a 1 3/4" nut width, medium jumbo frets, a bigger profile and a Tele peghead, locking tuners, a custom pickguard for the single P90, new pots and a serious amount of protection against noise. And it's strung with flatwound Chrome 10's.

[rpjazzguitar]

Sounds great to me.

I think the single note tone is exquisite. Can't imagine any guitar really being better.

I think the chord sounds are maybe more solid body-like (although I've been fooled before). I don't know that an archtop would be better, but I think it would sound a little different.

[Jim Soloway]

"Perfect" is the enemy of "great", Jim. At some point, you either have to find happiness or accept being addicted to the chase.

I agree and in much of my life, including my arranging, that's a significant guiding principle to my approach. Gear has been the one exception and even with gear, I've been drifting in that direction. After this latest mix, I feel like I may have actually achieved what I'm after. My target in tone has changed quite a bit recently and this is really close to what I was after. I certainly put a damper on my thoughts of ordering a guitar from Wu/Yunzhi. (Plus with the Guitarlift on it, it's become really comfortable to play. I've been playing some gigs lately for the first time in years, all with the Mustang and everyone has loved the sound, So maybe this really where I can stop, at least for a while. (On the other hand, my amp may ne a different issue, but that's a topic for another day).

[Jim Soloway]

It sounds great to me. I like the unprocessed sound, because there is less between your playing and my ears.
Is it just direct with a touch of reverb?

Pretty close. There's also a bit of EQ, although less than I've been using for a while, and a bit of compression.

[JazzPadd]

Lovely tone, and very tender playing. I don't think it needs an arch top, reminds me of Ted Greene.

Thanks for sharing this!

[Jim Soloway]

Sounds great to me.

I think the single note tone is exquisite. Can't imagine any guitar really being better.

I think the chord sounds are maybe more solid body-like (although I've been fooled before). I don't know that an archtop would be better, but I think it would sound a little different.

Solid body doesn't bother me. Thin bothers me and that was the obstacle I had to overcome. Apparently the consensus seems to be that I have in fact gotten there.

[Jim Soloway]

Lovely tone, and very tender playing. I don't think it needs an arch top, reminds me of Ted Greene.

Thanks for sharing this!

Thanks. I spent one evening with Ted 30 years ago and what I learned that one evening still pushes my ideas in new directions.

And thanks to all for the feedback. Between your comments, my wife's comments and some of the feedback on the Wu/Yunzhi thread, I think it's time to stop the merry-go-round for a while and just happily play my guitar.

[sgosnell]

Jim, I probably haven't heard every post you've made here, but certainly most. Any differences in the sound are just nuances, at least to my ears, whatever the guitar. If you want to spend a couple of thousand dollars on a new guitar on the chance that there will be some marginal improvement in your sound, it's your money. I'll look for it in the For Sale section in the future.

[Jim Soloway]

Jim, I probably haven't heard every post you've made here, but certainly most. Any differences in the sound are just nuances, at least to my ears, whatever the guitar. If you want to spend a couple of thousand dollars on a new guitar on the chance that there will be some marginal improvement in your sound, it's your money. I'll look for it in the For Sale section in the future.

I think your right and honestly, I have so much money tied up in the Mustang that I don't think I could ever bring myself to sell it. So it's time to just hit the record button and let my hands do the rest. We'll see how it feels in a few weeks but I suspect it's going to feel pretty good.

[st.bede]

… so Fralin hum canceling P90s, not the alnico rod ones, right? Did you try both?

Chromes… not my fav, but they are working great for you. Maybe I will try another set of Chromes. I am liking the upper tonal range you are getting. Punchy. The Chromes always feel a little stiff to me.

(I have almost purchased the HB sized hum canceling alnico P90 PUs a bunch of times. I have the P92s in a PRS hollowbody. Really nice PUs).

[Jim Soloway]

… so Fralin hum canceling P90s, not the alnico rod ones, right? Did you try both?

Chromes… not my fav, but they are working great for you. Maybe I will try another set of Chromes. I am liking the upper tonal range you are getting. Punchy. The Chromes always feel a little stiff to me.

(I have almost purchased the HB sized hum canceling alnico P90 PUs a bunch of times. I have the P92s in a PRS hollowbody. Really nice PUs).

Not the rods, no. And it was a typical in-Canada decision. I needed a pickup to replace the crappy pickup that came in a MIM Mustang and a friend of mine said, "I have a Fralin hum-cancelling P90 that I can give you a good price on". It difficult and expensive to get parts from the US here and I had some good history with Lindy's pickups when we were building guitars so two days later, without asking any questions at all, it was in the guitar.

The Chromes are a similar thing. I played TI's for a really long time. I was technically an endorser from their earliest days in the US. But when we moved to Canada they became much more difficult to get so I went back to Chromes after about a 20 year pause. I have bunches of them, all sets of 10's and I've put them on every guitar I've owned for the last 6 years or so and I just tune them to the same tension depending on the scale length. So for the Mustang with a 24" scale length, I get them to standard pitch. On my Soloway Gosling with a 25.5" scale length, I tune them down to D-standard. The one exception is on my Martin where I gradually raised the tuning from D all the way up to standard pitch. I'm not really sure why that one guitar remains playable for me but some how I manage with it.

[FRRGC_]

I thought that sounded wonderful! May I ask, how did you record it? I thought it sounded like you miced the acoustic sound in addition to the electric sound, which I know is common for hollow bodies but I don't think I've heard that on a solid body before. Did you do that? I'd also be interested in knowing if you miced an amp or recorded DI?

[Jim Soloway]

I thought that sounded wonderful! May I ask, how did you record it? I thought it sounded like you miced the acoustic sound in addition to the electric sound, which I know is common for hollow bodies but I don't think I've heard that on a solid body before. Did you do that? I'd also be interested in knowing if you miced an amp or recorded DI?

I actually don't even own a mic any more, but I do have a very cool trick that creates what you're hearing: I add two extra tracks, panned hard to either side and I route the main center track to both of those. Then I add a third track where I put the reverb plugin(s) and I route the two panned tracks to that reverb track. So there's verb only on the outer edges and it's totally dry up the middle. That's supposed to make it sound like you're hearing a room even though the guitar is recorded direct with no amp and no mic.

I first read about the idea of getting the verb at the edges in an interview with David Lindley, although he was talking about expensive mics in a world class studio but this is my low budget home recording hack to try to get the same effect he was describing. I've been using some variant of this concept for almost 20 years so maybe that's why people think that my recordings all have a similar feel to them.

[Cunamara]

I play every Monday evening with a friend of mine, who is a bassist among other things; in his basement, he has set up a three amp wet/dry/wet guitar rig. The center amp (Fender Deluxe Reverb Tone Master) is totally dry while on either side of it are amps (some sort of Fender cyborg thing from a few years back and a Line6 with Vox AC-30 emulation IIRC) with all of the effects. It certainly makes things sound much more spacious than the 10 x 12' area in which we play. so this sort of set up works in the room as well as in the DAW.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I actually don't even own a mic any more, but I do have a very cool trick that creates what you're hearing: I add two extra tracks, panned hard to either side and I route the main center track to both of those. Then I add a third track where I put the reverb plugin(s) and I route the two panned tracks to that reverb track. So there's verb only on the outer edges and it's totally dry up the middle. That's supposed to make it sound like you're hearing a room even though the guitar is recorded direct with no amp and no mic.

I first read about the idea of getting the verb at the edges in an interview with David Lindley, although he was talking about expensive mics in a world class studio but this is my low budget home recording hack to try to get the same effect he was describing. I've been using some variant of this concept for almost 20 years so maybe that's why people think that my recordings all have a similar feel to them.

You might try a mid-side processing plugin, Jim. MS has the same kind of spatial effect and takes virtually no effort. Another trick is to use a dry center track with a pair of identical L & R tracks each if which is delayed a very few msec (differing by 2 or 3 from L to R).