Eastman John Pisano Model

**StevieB** · 05-24-2011, 08:01 PM

I had an opportunity today to play a new Eastman AR680CE today at a local music shop and was very pleasantly surprised. For those who don't know, this is the lower-end John Pisano model. (solid spruce top, solid mahogany back and sides, 16" lower bout).

I have an ES-175 but am looking for an arch top with a little wider neck for finger style ease. I've also previously looked at and played the Sadowsky Jim Hall and SS-15 models which are both very nice as well albeit at a much higher price point than the Eastman and they are laminates at that.

Anybody else seen and/or played either of the Eastman John Pisano models?

**Steve Z** · 05-24-2011, 08:45 PM

I was able to try a Pisano model several years back and was also quite impressed. I believe I described the neck as "playing like butter"... it was incredible comfortable. I did not though have the opportunity to play it amplified at any significant volume. Nice guitars.

Cheers,
Steve

**jzucker** · 05-24-2011, 09:01 PM

i played and briefly owned a pisano model. It was a very nice guitar and had a distinctly acoustic voice, similar to some of the clips I've posted recently of the heritage sweet 16 and eagle. One issue is that if you are playing with a loud group it is prone to feedback. Moreso than the 175 or sadowsky laminate guitars.

**82Benedetto** · 05-24-2011, 09:57 PM

The Pisano's I've played felt very similar to a number of other Eastman's I played, including the one I own. Aren't the measurements the same among most of their models?

I'm pretty sure the nut width and scale length are the same.

That being said, when I was picking out my Eastman I originally GAS'd for the Pisano. It's a stunning instrument.

**Soco** · 05-24-2011, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i played and briefly owned a pisano model. It was a very nice guitar and had a distinctly acoustic voice, similar to some of the clips I've posted recently of the heritage sweet 16 and eagle. One issue is that if you are playing with a loud group it is prone to feedback. Moreso than the 175 or sadowsky laminate guitars.

A student of mine is going to lock at some Eastman's this weekend, any particular models that you recommend? I think I wants a fully hollow one, possible a thinner guitar.

**jzucker** · 05-24-2011, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Soco

A student of mine is going to lock at some Eastman's this weekend, any particular models that you recommend? I think I wants a fully hollow one, possible a thinner guitar.

The 803 16" is nice. It's very similar to the pisano. The 15" model sounded a bit thin to me but probably works nicer at loud volumes.

**knoble53** · 05-24-2011, 10:46 PM

If you have a chance, check out the Eastman El Rey Jazz (1 pickup) or El Rey Deluxe jazz (2 pickups). They are a very nice size, fully hollow, and sound great. I just bought an El Rey Deluxe (ER2) a week ago and I love it!!!

**NSJ** · 05-24-2011, 11:25 PM

I have an El-Rey ER-1 (7 string) and it is a fantastic model, great small size but a neck with a Johnny Smith scale (25")--well made, beautifully designed, affordable.

Maybe at some point, I may see what a new pickup would do, possibly the Benedetto 7 string pickups, but, for now, I'm more than happy with the tone.

**StevieB** · 05-25-2011, 10:16 AM

Why do solid wood topped arch tops feedback more than laminate top arch tops?

**mr. beaumont** · 05-25-2011, 10:40 AM

More vibration. So the same thing that makes them sound better as an acoustic instrument can be a curse plugged in...

Of course, plenty of folks have played solid topped instruments live, but if you look at the big names playing big rooms, it does seem to be laminate dominated...(there's always exceptions, mind you)

**StevieB** · 05-25-2011, 12:34 PM

I looked closely at the Sadowsky Jim Hall and the Sadowsky SS-15 a while back but postponed my decision. Then by chance I played the Eastman John Pisano and it seemed very nice as well.

Maybe someone can explain this to me: Why is there such a significant price difference between a Sadowsky and an Eastman? both are made overseas and do final setups in the US. And Eastmans' are solid wood carved and the Sadowskys' are laminate. I have no dog in this hunt so to speak . . . I just don't get it.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-25-2011, 12:50 PM

It' china vs. Japan, really.

And as nice as the Eastmans are, the Sadowsky's are a cut above, laminated or not.

**jzucker** · 05-25-2011, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

It' china vs. Japan, really.

And as nice as the Eastmans are, the Sadowsky's are a cut above, laminated or not.

it's apples/oranges. The workmanship on the eastmans is equal to or close to anything else out there. However, on the sadowsky, Roger goes over them and essentially details them and does a pro setup on it. Additionally, the sadowsky guitars are made of plywood whereas the eastmans are solid wood. Whether you like one or the other is subjective. Wes used carved, spruce top guitars. You don't get *that* sound out of a sadowsky. However, Pass, Farlow, Kessel, Raney, Hall, Kreisberg use plywood guitars and you'll get closer to that sound with a Sadowsky though if you're looking for that sound you might want to check out a gibson 175.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-25-2011, 01:07 PM

I'd agree that the Eastman's are about as nice as anything out there. But I have also played one Sadowsky, and it was essentially perfect in every way.

Plus, while the Eastmans are a far cry from a sweatshop guitar, you're still getting cheaper labor on them. A similar quality guitar made in America (or Japan) would cost thousands more.

So in otherwords, with Sadowsky you're getting an expensive instrument that's probably worth it's price. With Eastman, you're getting a bargain (If you can think of 2k as a bargain) if you compare price to quality

**NSJ** · 05-25-2011, 01:22 PM

I'm just happy that, as an owner of an El Rey, ES-175, and a Jim Hall, I have no GAS whatsoever and can just get on with playing music

. they are all fantastic instruments. although, some point, I'd love to check out a SS-15--no one has done a review or extensive demo yet--just the YouTube video of that Brazilian guy finger picking. Paging Mr. Wolf Marshall

If I ever were to trade in for the future, it'd be for a SS-15 or a small dedicated jazz box like a SS-15.

Jeff Hale commented once that the only guitars he doesn't have to setup at all before they are marketed for sale were the Sadowsky's. he said that Roger made sure they were SPOT ON PERFECT before they went out the door.

I am disappointed that they started with the Poly finishes, though.

There was a rumor that the El Reys were hand finished and not sprayed, but apparently they are sprayed--thankfully with thin nitro.

**StevieB** · 05-25-2011, 01:36 PM

I'm just happy that, as an owner of an El Rey, ES-175, and a Jim Hall,

Since you have an Eastman (El Rey) and a Sadowsky (Jim Hall) may be you could tell me if there is any difference in the bridge-string-spacing between the two companies guitars. I believe all of the Sadowsky archtops are 2 3/32".

if you're looking for that sound you might want to check out a gibson 175.

I' have an ES-175. I like the tone, but would like a 1 3/4" nut width and a bit more bridge string spacing.

**jzucker** · 05-25-2011, 01:37 PM

cheaper labor doesn't mean lower quality. Actually, you have more skilled luthiers working per guitar at eastman than gibson. Gibson and many high dollar shops use minimum wage workers for most of the work.

with eastman you get a bargain *and* a great guitar. No doubt the sadowsky is a higher price point instrument and in many regards you get what you pay for but you're not sacrificing much getting an eastman. The bigger difference is the solid vs plywood debate.

**StevieB** · 05-25-2011, 02:10 PM

The bigger difference is the solid vs plywood debate.

I'd love to get some input on this. Based on the following facts and characteristics about me and my playing, what is probably the best wood choice for me (solid or laminate) in order for me to create a robust tone from my arch top guitar.

- I'm not a pro player, just an aspiring intermediate
- I will be playing pretty much only with my bare fingers and acrylic nails (hey what can I say).
- I will be playing primarily solo guitar
- I will be playing primarily chord melody arrangements
- I have a medium to soft attack
- I will be using either a Henriksen Jazz Amp or AER Compact 60.

Thanks in advance for any input!

**NSJ** · 05-25-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by StevieB

Since you have an Eastman (El Rey) and a Sadowsky (Jim Hall) may be you could tell me if there is any difference in the bridge-string-spacing between the two companies guitars. I believe all of the Sadowsky archtops are 2 3/32".

I' have an ES-175. I like the tone, but would like a 1 3/4" nut width and a bit more bridge string spacing.

Hmm not sure what these measurements are--I also have a 7 string El Rey, too, which has a "classical guitar" nut width (2 1/16").

Both are great for finger picking. It would be a crime to play 7 string with a pick, IMHO. The Eastman is a bit neck heavy, and definitely requires strap locks. I'd call Jeff Hale at JHale music about Eastman specs.

**StevieB** · 05-25-2011, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Hmm not sure what these measurements are--I also have a 7 string El Rey, too, which has a "classical guitar" nut width (2 1/16").

Both are great for finger picking. It would be a crime to play 7 string with a pick, IMHO. The Eastman is a bit neck heavy, and definitely requires strap locks. I'd call Jeff Hale at JHale music about Eastman specs.

Hey thanks NSJ

I actually just now got some info on this from calling a local dealer who did a quick measurement. According to him, the bridge-string-spacing for the Eastman John Pisano measures slightly more than 2 1/8" (say 2 5/32"). The 2 3/32" measurement for the Sadowkys I got directly from the company.

That little difference is a big + for the Pisano for me.

I'm definitely not a 7 string guy (although I did get to see George Van Eps a few times near the end of his career . . . Wow!) . . 6 strings is more than enough trouble for me.

**wiglebot** · 03-26-2012, 08:42 PM

I got a used Pisano (maple back) and the action was very high. It had a strange string combo but I bought it anyway. The guitar shop controls the humidity, but when I got it home the frets buzzed when I tried to lower the action just a little. Also I thought the intonation was off on the G string, so I was thinking someone put improper round wounds for the guitar.
1. I put flat wounds 11s (even though I like a 12 #1) and things started sounding better.
2. checked the groves in the nut and bridge and they seemed OK. The Flat wounds fit perfect. Not sure if 13-53s would work.
3. check the new tension on truss rod. The neck curved just right, but was read to give 1/4 or 1/8 turn. And it was pan flat from the 10-12th fret on (perfect)
4. checked the fret radius to bridge (mentioned above). I didn't think it matched, so I eventually set the action to 3/64 in 1st string and 4/64 on 6 string and this seems perfect.

This guitar now plays perfect with low action. I have metal gauge that is 3/64 and it is very tight under the 12th fret (1st string).

Also the Pisano seems to arch more than the other Eastmans' (on the back and front) it starts flat and has a very defined arch -- like a cello. So I would say it is its own thing. I love them. And will always use its design as a reference point if I get a custom archtop.

**Swingcat** · 08-17-2013, 01:20 AM

I have the AR880CE John Pisano model, an AR805CE, and a T186MX thinline (ES335 Style). I play professionally, and am very happy with Eastman guitars.
If you want an archtop with a great acoustic voice, the AR805CE is a great guitar. It is acoustically superior to the larger AR810CE, and to almost all other acoustic archtop guitars (except maybe some vintage L-5's, Strombergs, etc which go in the $30-50k range) It also sounds great amplified with the stock pickup. The Pisano sounds a bit more like an acoustic archtop when plugged into a Fender clean amp, but the 805 also gets a bit of that also.
Used, the 880 Pisano models go around $2000, and the 805's go for $1000-1500 here in California.
I currently,and quite reluctantly, have my Pisano model for sale, as I need a more modern jazz tone for some stuff I play. I am planning on getting a AR372CE with the money.
I'm selling the Pisano because the 805 is actually more versatile (I've also installed a Pick-Up-The-World archtop piezo bridge pickup in it for running an even more convincing tone thru an LR Baggs Para-Acoustic D.I. to house PA System), and also, because the Pisano is in very good condition, and guitars tend to get banged around a bit in a nine piece Swing band. I hate to be responsible for a guitar in that nice condition.
Having said all that, you should try to define what you want in an archtop, as different makes, and different models from each maker, have different characteristics. The guitars with top mounted pickups tend to usually have a more modern tone (Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, etc. with the exception of the Pisano, which is the most acoustic sounding of all when plugged in despite the top-mounted Humbucker)
The guitars that are orange or red and have Bigsby vibrato's tend to be Gretsch-like (Brian Setzer, Rev. Horton Heet, Voodoo Daddy,etc.)
Guitars with floating pickups tend to be on the more acoustic side, even when amplified, which is great for older Jazz, Swing, Western Swing, etc.
I didn't mean to be so long winded, but just thought you should have an insight as to where you're headed.
If I could only have one archtop, I think the AR805CE would be the one, but that's just for me. You may want to hear something else in your tones than what I want to hear.

**Falling_leaves** · 12-02-2013, 05:34 AM

First of all, thanks for American Music selling this beautiful guitar to me (in Australia)

As described by some folks in this forum, this Pisano (AR680CE) has an excellent craftsmanship and quality.

However and unfortunately, the tone is out of my expectation. After plugged in, it doesn't sound electrically at all.

Before I made the decision to buy this guitar, I have done a ton of research on it. I rarely saw any negative comment about this pisano model. The only one I saw and made me worry that is related to its plugged in "acoustic" tone.

Yes, the acoustic tone let me down.

I can't understand why some people on youtube can make this guitar sounds wonderful like these:

but my pisano sounds like the following clips (Sadowsky Jim Hall)

How can I make it sound warmer and darker as other electric archtop?

I wonder that is because I haven't played it with reverb (I 'm using cube 15, no reverb) and with low gauge flatwound (.011)

Can anyone help me? I don't want to re-sell it or swap the pickup. I'm sure there must be some ways to make it sounds what it should be.

Thank you very much!!!

**2bornot2bop** · 12-02-2013, 06:01 AM

That was one of the best buys ever on feebay. I'd bought the exact guitar from a different dealer a week earlier.

First, what string make and size are you using? Mine warmed up a lot, but I use TI 14's, which are too large for some users.

Second, that pup is a KA hand wound. It needs no replacement.

Third, don't expect your guitar to necessarily sound like a YouTube demo video. So much of a players tone is in their hands, and technique. That's been my experience.

Recently, Jim Soloway played a guitar in my presence, one I'd been playing for several weeks, and the guitar took on a whole new character than I'd experienced when I played it. I'm not ashamed to say the guitar sounded much better being played by Jim.

I used a boutique built twin all tube amp with the Pisano, and it would not surprise me for anyone not using a hefty tube amp not to share a similar playing experience with that guitar.