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hi
who produce nowadays real brass strings on round core?
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02-01-2024 06:35 PM
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Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. What do you mean by "real brass"?
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Curt Mangan makes a round core 80/20 string. I use them on my vintage D'Angelico guitars.
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nice. thanks
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Newtone also makes round core brass strings. Big fan of Newtones.
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Ive been using martin 80/20 sp 13-56 (actually i put 14-17 thoms on top) on my GE. Its the first time Ive tried a "brass" string on an archtop. Im hooked, I didnt realize they would sound great also through a pickup because they are called acoustic. So it took the already great acoustic sound up a notch and sounds amazing with the floater through a guitar amp.best of both worlds. This thread is timely as I really want to explore this and didnt have much intel. So thanks for the suggestions Im going to start with CM SS recommended. Im going to try a 12 set on my Sw 16. with set in pickup, should be interesting. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I too use Martin 80/20 mediums(13-56) on my vintage Epiphone acoustic archtops, after trying and liking brass strings by a west coast boutique string maker(whose name now escapes me). I did like those, but they were very pricey, and so I switched the the 80/20s. They sound essentially the same to me(perhaps the cores are different, round vs. hex). My understanding is that modern 80/20 strings are very similar metal composition to 'early' brass strings: is this not correct? I do own an unused set of vintage green box Epiphone brass strings(with a .060" bass E string), I'm very tempted to try them. The 80/20s worked well amplified, through the Kent Armstring 'handmade' single coil floater I use on my Epis.
Part of the reason I use the Martins, is that I buy them in bulk(25 sets), which brings down the cost. The main reason is that I like their sound.
What does the OP mean by 'real' brass strings?Last edited by daverepair; 02-04-2024 at 09:40 AM.
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Aren't those Martin strings hex-cores?
There is also 85/15 brass, with 85% copper. A priori that makes the alloy slightly softer which should give the strings a little bit more overtones. d'Addario sell these as "American bronze", I have no idea if there's anything more "vintage" about this alloy than the regular brass.
If you accept the bronze misnomer for brass it would make sense to call 80/20 "vintage bronze" compared to the much more modern phosphor-bronze (actual bronze), introduced in the 70s.
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D’Addario has a brief but useful breakdown of string types with some historical notes as well.
The Ultimate Guide to Acoustic Guitar Strings | D’Addario Lesson Room
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[QUOTE=daverepair;1314625]I too use Martin 80/20 mediums(13-56) on my vintage Epiphone acoustic archtops, after trying and liking brass strings by a west coast boutique string maker(whose name now escapes me). I did like those, but they were very pricey, and so I switched the the 80/20s. They sound essentially the same to me(perhaps the cores are different, round vs. hex). My understanding is that modern 80/20 strings are very similar metal composition to 'early' brass strings: is this not correct? I do own an unused set of vintage green box Epiphone brass strings(with a .060" bass E string), I'm very tempted to try them. The 80/20s worked well amplified, through the Kent Armstring 'handmade' single coil floater I use on my Epis."
Thats exactly what Im doing, when I got my GE I wasnt crazy about the stock pickup. Kent said hed rewound quite a few for GEs but never put a single coil. I sent him the whole pickguard pu assy and he built me a tapped single coil into that setup so you couldnt tell it had been changed. I was amazed (having never tried it) how good "bronze" strings sound on that guitar. Good to know youve had good result also...If I hadnt found my GE my acoustic would definitely be a vintage EPI, great to hear youve also had a great result on one of my fantasy guitars. Looking forward to trying SSs, recommendation out just put a new set of martins on so Im gonna play like hell and see how quick I can wear them out. As usual great thread!
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To extend the thread topic a little (and since SSer and Rman are here) any thoughts about phosphor vs 80 20? I know you guys have multiples of all my fantasy guitars and you can play. Specifically string life (playing an hour or two a day) and tone. Are the tonal differences obvious, say in terms of loudness and "warmness"? I think CM offers both...any comparisons? I really like the martins but they are all I have tried and only in the 14-56 (I put heavier e,b) the tension is high which I imagine is part of the sound but Im getting older and finding harder to fret these stiffer strings. So in a perfect world Id like the same projection a tad brighter midrange and lower tension, Im going to try a 12 set on my 16 but Im really after the best match for my 17 acoustic. Apologies if this has been addressed.
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I have tried Nickel acoustic Strings, Monel acoustic strings, silk and steel acoustic strings, Phosphor Bronze acoustic strings, 80/20 acoustic strings and flatwound 80/20 acoustic strings on my acoustic archtops. Originally Posted by Rickco
I like round core 80/20 (both roundwound and flatwound) the best for tone and feel and at 66 years old, my hands cannot do 13's or higher. The 80/20 strings have a definition to the tone that the others lack. They do not last as long for sure, but tone is way more important to me than durability.
On my Genuine D'Angelicos I use Curt Mangan round core 80/20 strings 12-53 .These guitars are all 17 inch guitars with a 24.75 scale.
On my Heritage built D'Angelico New Yorker Replica, I use Dogal 80/20 round core flatwound strings 12-48 . This guitar is an 18 inch guitar with a 25.5 scale. With the longer scale, I like the skinnier bass strings and flatwound feel on this set which is a very expensive set, but they seems to be more durable than the Curt Mangan strings.
All of the other strings lacked the definition that the 80/20 strings bring. The round core versions do seem to be a bit easier on the fingers and perhaps a touch warmer as well.
And with that said, I think at some point I might try as set of the Newtone round core 80/20's and see if I like them. But generally, I am an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of guy" so maybe I won't.
HTH
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On my acoustic archtops I never use brass or bronze strings. I use traditional nickel strings, but I like the pure nickel the best. My current favorite strings are Thomastik jazz swings that are 13-53. I use them but do rotate just to change things at times. The Thomastiks are expensive, but I can get a long life out of them, I am generally not hard on strings or frets. All of my guitars except the 2005 Super 400ces are carved-tops with floaters. On the Super 400 I use Thomastik flatwounds that are flatwound 12-50.
My 37 New Yorker sounds good with the Thomastiks or DR Pure blues. My dislike for bronze and brass is they are too bright and jangly for my ears. I play a lot of chord melody and they do not sound as smooth and even. Maybe if I was just banging out 4 bar Freddie Green stuff that would be a choice and then I would do what SS says.
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I use TI Flats (11's and 12's) on all of my archtops with built in pickups. I use DR Pure Blues (10's) on all of my solid body guitars. But on the truly acoustic archtops, I find the extra "zing" of the 80/20 gives me more cut for rhythm guitar and more note definition for chord melody work. That said, I might not like 80/20 roundwounds on a 25.5 scale guitar. But the 80/20 Dogal Flats bring a more defined sound than the TI flats for sure and work real well on a 25.5 scale. And they are not too bright. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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"I like round core 80/20 (both roundwound and flatwound) the best for tone and feel and at 66 years old, my hands cannot do 13's or higher. The 80/20 strings have a definition to the tone that the others lack. They do not last as long for sure, but tone is way more important to me than durability.
On my Genuine D'Angelicos I use Curt Mangan round core 80/20 strings 12-53 .These guitars are all 17 inch guitars with a 24.75 scale."
Without the experience youve had this is where Im at. Im 70 now and Im having a hard time fretting 14s-56 although I love the sound. I noticed The Martins seem to have very high tension so hoping a round core CM might be a little more forgiving. Im also wondering what to expect for longevity. Ive been playing Thom flats 12-13 on my archtop electrics always. They last forever so Im not used to what to expect for string life on the kind of strings were discussing here. I tried some Labella nickle rounds and found them to last longer (i think) than the Martin 80/20s and playing daily I got about 4 mos out of the Martins. Wondering if theres any correlation between string life and variations of the "bronze" family (without giving up tone)
HTH[/QUOTE]
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I probably use my archtop very differently than most here, but I'll offer my thoughts on this subject anyway, focussing on the broken-in sound (new strings never sound ideal to me). Note also that I only use silk-and-steel design strings. Originally Posted by Rickco
As I hinted at above, a wrap with a softer alloy will give a sound with more overtones, i.e. brighter. You can hear that with PB winding (which is harder than brass); the sound is a bit more fundamental (less bright) which is undoubtedly the main reason why these strings earned a reputation to sound warm. I like them on the middle strings for that reason, also on my nylon-string guitars. I find there's something cello-like to the tone they give. Curiously they also don't mellow out (go "dark") as much as brass-wounds.
For the 6th string I always use a brass-wound though; here the extra overtones allow it to sound more lively when I go a bit higher on the fretboard; PB-wound low E strings usually start to sound dead ("out of breath") when you go beyond the 7th fret.
But ... I've played TI Spectrums for a long time (long w.r.t. the time I own an archtop), thinking they were PBs. They're not, most likely, but they do have a different sound and look than the Plectrums (which are regular brass AFAICT).
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80/20 strings sound too bright to me at first and then just go dead quickly. The window of good sound with them is fleeting to me, basically non-existent. I've been using Elixir Nanoweb PB strings for a while now and to me they sound great from the beginning. The nanoweb coating seems to take just enough harshness that uncoated strings would have and they continue to sound basically the same for a long time. I'm experimenting with D'Addario coated PB strings (XS and XT) currently, and I've been enjoying the results so far with the XS, but haven't really tried the XT yet. I've also just put a set of D'Addario Nickel Bronze on a 1953 L-5 and am pretty happy with them. The Nickel Bronze strings are PB with a nickel coating that is supposed to extend the life of the strings. Originally Posted by Rickco
Just to throw monel in the mix. I almost can't stand the sound of Martin Retros for the first few days, but after they settle in they are actually some of my favorite strings and they have a decent lifespan.
The only bronze flatwound strings I've tried are the Galli Jazz Flats which are 80/20 and hex core. I thought they sounded harsh, but that's no different than how I feel about any other 80/20s.
For one more variation, I've found GHS White Bronze which is a nickel-iron alloy (also hex core) to be a decent compromise when a round wound acoustic sound is wanted in a guitar that also has a magnetic pickup. i don't like the acoustic sound as much as PB. The tone seems a bit less lively, comparatively
I think all of the strings I listed have hex cores. A round core string should be more flexible and have a lower tension feel at a matched gauge in comparison to a hex core string. I should probably try some more round core strings to see how I think they compare, but there aren't nearly as many on the market.
As far as gauge goes, I pretty much stick to 12s and 13s. I haven't found much of any advantage in going to a higher gauge.
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I'm not playing acoustically much anymore but when I do its PB. Never liked 80/20's for the reasons TRM points out.
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No doubt as this thread illustrates, some will like 80/20 and others will like PB and others will like other strings (Nickel, silk and steel, Monel). Some will like roundwounds, some will like flatwounds. Some will like hex core, some will like round core. Some will like light strings (8's to 11's) others will like heavy strings (12's to 14's).
Strings are not that expensive all things considered and one should experiment to figure out what you like.
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Ok, one more time: silk-and-steel is a string-core design, so you'd have to classify it with hex-core, round-core and nylon/yarn-core Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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The only way to know is to try so Im going to start with the CM 80/20 round core. Any thoughts on the coated version? do they really last longer, sound the same, feel similar. Im also going to get a set of phosphor just to compare but... since the phosphor is supposed to last longer than 80/20 is there any point in getting them with coating? Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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One thing one can consider about coated strings is that these almost always seem to use some substance of the teflon family. I.e. not exactly environment friendly, nor probably very healthy when they start to shed.
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round core newtone 13-60 as a good point of start for a vintage epi.
I wish elixir will make round core coated strings.
13 - 60 is the equivalent of the modern 12-56 in tension.
If you want more mass, less tension, round core is for you.
I’m not sure but I suspect the old gibson 14-58 sets were round core.
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That only makes sense if the round core is thinner (assuming the wrap alloy is of a lower density than the core). Originally Posted by archtopdream63
All other things being equal, a hex-core wire with the same outer radius as a round-core wire will have less mass.
Actually, "mass" being another term for weight, "more mass, less tension" can only be achieved by tuning down in pitch or reducing the scale length.
Round core strings (supposedly) feel less taut, but AFAIK that's only because the core wire can slide a bit more easily inside the wrap than a hex-core can (which is the reason behind the use of those). But that's not the same thing as tension...
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I Know. I just use tension as a word. hex core is stiffer then round core Originally Posted by RJVB
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