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Hi all,
I recently bought a second-hand Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin and have generally been very pleased by the sound and playability of it. I just took it in to a luthier for a setup, and in addition to some basic things (like lowering the nut slots slightly and shaving some material from the bridge to allow for a lower action setting) I am considering doing something a bit less conventional: literally chopping off the highest two frets of the neck to create a space between the neck and the neck pickup.
The issue is this: I love playing up high on the string, right up around the base of the neck. On the Kingpin this gets such a sweet tone, almost sounding like a flute or a nylon string guitar. But the neck on the Kingpin goes right up to the P90, and when I try to pick up there I'm always clacking against the fretboard (I can't do a shallow picking technique).
I noticed that, when you compare the Kingpin to an ES-125, the pickup is basically in the same spot, but the 125 neck stops at the 20th fret, leaving a good space between the fretboard and the pickup for playing. The fretboard on the Kingpin adds a 21st fret and then a large 22nd fret (w/o the fret) that ends up flush with the pickup (see pics).
Without a cutaway, there's no way that anything above the 19th fret will be of any real use. I think Godin just extended the fretboard as an aesthetic choice, but it's annoying for high-pickers like myself. Since the end of the fretboard is floating, and not attached to the body (see last pic), I wondered if it might just be possible to chop off the last fret and a half, leaving the fretboard the same length as a 125 and creating a space for picking. My luthier said that this would be possible, and so I am seriously considering doing this.
I was wondering if any of you had any opinions on this choice or knew of any reasons why I should not do this. For me, it will really improve the playability, and I don't think it will be very noticeable visually. In fact, I think it would look better because it would be closer to the classic 125 form. I would obviously never do this on a vintage guitar, but since Godins don't really have much resale potential, I don't think it would be compromising the authenticity or originality too much.
Any thoughts?
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01-07-2024 06:18 AM
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I can not offer any real advice.
I can say that, when I am experiencing a problem that has to do with how guitar was fundamentally built, I sell the guitar and find a replacement.
I certainly have to change picking spots based on what guitar I am playing. When I was a kid, I would change spots for timbre. Now day I am more likely to adjust tone or volume knobs.
A thought that came to me was to try a different pick before any drastic actions. … maybe smaller, maybe rounder. Also raise the action, and adjust tension by dropping down in string gage.
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Very easy to do - go right ahead.
You are right about value - it's a highly functional but dime-a-dozen guitar.
Get the strings out of the way, slide a piece of cardboard into the gap to protect the top, tape off the pickup to keep sawdust from getting stuck in it, and use a fine-tooth Japanese backsaw. It's a ten minute job.
You can touch up the exposed wood with a tinted marker, then seal it with whatever goo you prefer.
Last edited by Hammertone; 01-07-2024 at 01:26 PM.
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I'm with Hammertone. The Godin is a workhorse rather than a collectible- a good-sounding, very playable guitar but it's not an L-5. Make it work for you!
I have thought about doing the same thing with my archtop, which has 22 frets and a floating pickup. The Gibson Johnny Smith had either 19 or 20 frets (can't recall right now) and that allows the pickup to be farther from the bridge and into warmer tonal territory. I never play that high on the neck, anyway, so those frets are not useful to have.
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Why can’t you shallow pick? Get comfortable with slightly adjusting your technique. It’ll do a lot more for you than taking a saw to the guitar will.
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Definitely not my area of knowledge, so you'll probably say "duh", but how far down the fingerboard would the truss rod anchor be located on this guitar? (Probably around the 15-16th fret, but hey...)
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Thanks for the feedback, all.
Hammertone and Cunamara: Glad you agree, I think I'll probably go ahead and make the chop, although I'll get my luthier to do it rather than trying myself.
AllanAllen: I play with very low action, so it would have to be incredibly shallow picking to pick on top of the fretboard without hitting the wood. But also I've tried picking shallow and I feel like I don't get the full tone I get with my natural method, and I'm definitely more interested in tone than speed with picking.
Peter C: I had the same thought at first, but my luthier said the truss rod stops around where the neck meets the body so it shouldn't be a problem.
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That is about 84,000 dimes per dozen. Unless guitars are sold in baker dozens.
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Let me ask some other questions since you are new here. What other guitars do you have?
What level are you at with your playing? Basically, if you can't run the major scale up and down the neck in all 12 keys, don't cut your guitar. Adjust your playing technique. A lot of beginners get stuck in this chasing tone phase and never get anywhere.
I'm asking because the ES125 looks like a stock photo, and you just created this account. This is supposed to be helpful, not trying to trash your idea. If you've got the basics down and have hands on knowledge that you need the 125 gap, then go for it. Post pictures too.
But, if you're still green and you think chopping off two frets will be the key to unlocking jazz from the guitar, you're going to spend a bunch of money to sound the same.
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also have a look at
Grote guitars
GROTE RED Hollow Body Jazz Electric Guitar GRWB-ZTTR – Grote Guitar
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You're talking about probably a several hundred dollar modification to a $1000 guitar. To me, that's not good value for money.
Originally Posted by jinsog
Better to sell the Godin and buy a guitar you actually like to play. Better use of funds, in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by st.bede
I got my KP for 650 used, and I don't think my luthier would charge me much more than 40 bucks to make the cut. Originally Posted by dconeill
I get where you're coming from but I've been playing for 30+ years and I just know that certain lines will sound better played above the neck pickup and I want to have that choice. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I think that choice of picking area is crucial to getting that 60s Jim Hall tone, or something like it. See in these videos how he's picking right over that gap between the neck and pup on his 175:
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Cool, then I say go for it. Post pictures too! Or better yet a clip of some playing. Originally Posted by jinsog
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Will do! Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Several hundreds for cutting (and sanding)? I would do it myself instead. As you say, the guitar is not expensive. Originally Posted by dconeill
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That was / is nice, especially on a gloomy Monday w/ snow in the forecast !
Thanks !
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If you chop off "a fret and a half", do you get as much room as the Gibson? Or is the new window for picking still too narrow? Looks like it would be too narrow for the way I play, but everybody is different.
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I think it will be narrower than the Gibson but still enough space for me to play in. I might not want to always play there but it should work for a line or melody here and there. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Hi all, just checking back in with an update. My luthier did a fantastic job with the cut, and I love the results. I think the guitar looks even better, because it's closer to the 125 ideal, and the space is plenty to allow me to do deep picking in that sweet spot, which I admittedly don't use that much yet, but it comes in handy for paying nice round melodies and certain lines while soloing.
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If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that Barney Kessel at some point did he same with his modified ES350. He is said to have had a new fretboard made on it at lest two times and it seems that with the last one he had given up the shortened length.
But I can readily follow you. I have a 19" acoustic archtop made for me by Jim Triggs a decade ago. It's a great guitar but I do regret that I didn't order it with a 19 or 20 frets instead of the 22 frets it came with. My pick often hits the outermost end of fretboard when playing rhythm. But due to the multiple layer binding, chopping off the last 2 or 3 frets would look awful. And being situated in Denmark, sending the guitar back to Jim Triggs to have it done properly including reapplying bindings doesn't seem like an option for me.
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Your luthier did a very nice job. Looks great! Originally Posted by jinsog
Just curious, and feel free not to answer because this is nothing more than idle curiosity, but how much did the job cost? (I was the one who thought the job would cost hundreds of dollars, see post #11). I'm interested, and will probably be embarrassed, to discover how far off I was.
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He charged me his standard labor fee for one hour (although it probably took him longer than that) which was 66 euros. Originally Posted by dconeill
He made the extra effort to do it up nice, too, with the slight overhang of the fingerboard and the nicely rounded edges.
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Well it looks great and now you can be happy with your playing time. It seemed reasonably priced for the work so win win!
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I was skeptical but it looks great—OEM.
Sweet guitar—enjoy!
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Very clean job...you got yourself a good luthier! Now enjoy that guitar!
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