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so I’m looking into seriously buying my first gypsy jazz guitar, and the two that are on the table right now, is a studio model Barault, and the prospect of ordering a new Dupont MD 50. What I like about the Barault is the pliage, but I’m not just about the mahogany sides.
the Dupont MD 50 is a standard with all the usual specs, but without the pliage.
I want to make the most informed choice I can for my first gypsy jazz guitar because I want to keep it for a lifetime. Let me know your ladies and gentlemen,Last edited by KyOteSwing; 01-03-2024 at 09:50 AM.
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01-02-2024 05:30 PM
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If you got the scratch, Dupont.
Personally, I don’t care for mahogany guitars, though I have no experience with Beraults.
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Just get a dupont.
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Yep, DuPont is the gold standard. I have had mine for 20 years now.
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Thank U for the input… everyone I’ve spoken to seems to say the same thing about it, so that is what I’m gonna roll with. Appreciate the responses
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I feel the same way. I think that Indian Rosewood is much more the classic “sound” that one is after when they go for a gypsy jazz guitar. That was one of my main reservations about the Barault, as nice of a guitar as it is.
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Did you end up buying new or used?
Originally Posted by KyOteSwing
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Didn’t most all of the classic laminates have mahogany as a substrate? Curious if anyone knows how that layering of rosewood actually added to the sound?
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Few years ago I upgraded from a Asian built GJG and after playing several European and North American builds went with a 1998 Dupont MC-30 14. This model is a little different as it has solid Indian Rosewood back and sides. I'm the second owner, the first was a celebrity player. It's a outstanding instrument that's been around a campfire or 12.
If you ever decide to sell your upgrade, as SS pointed out, the Dupont is going to be much easier to sell. Kind of the Gibson of GJG's.
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I have also owned a Dupont for 20 years. Mine is a standard MD50, with a Dupont Bigtone bridge/pickup. It’s a fantastic sounding guitar, very responsive and quite loud acoustically. I’m not crazy about the amplified sound of the Bigtone, but it does allow you to get a somewhat acceptable amplified sound at higher volumes and doesn’t seem to affect the acoustic qualities of the guitar. I bought mine for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. They seem to be an extremely popular and respected brand, and after owning one, I understand why. I have noticed recently that there don’t seem to be any new Duponts available at the regular GJG dealers in North America. Has there been a supply problem as of late? Also, there don’t seem to be any used ones in stock at the same dealers either, so I assume the demand exceeds the supply. These are good reasons to try and get into a Dupont if you are in the market for a GJG.
Keith
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Both GJ dealers have been pretty light on stock in general the last few years. At one point you could buy directly from Dupont, if that's still the case that'd probably be the way to go. I'm looking at buying a Stringphonic (archtop, not Selmer style) in a few months and I'm buying directly from them instead of going through either dealer. It's faster and will come out a lot cheaper considering the current Yen exchange rate.
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The Dupont website shows a large number of models with prices. It isn’t clear how to place an order, but I imagine it would be easy enough to do so if a buyer just contacted them. The list price for an MD50 is 3870€ including taxes. Not sure how much of that is VAT and if that would be deducted for a guitar being shipped outside of the Euro. It would also be fun to fly to France and pick it up in person, but I’m sure you would have to pay the VAT then. Originally Posted by olejason
Keith
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There is no VAT if it's shipped outside of Europe. You may or may not have to pay Customs fees though. I ordered a high end bass from Italy and never had to pay anything so I'm not real sure how it works. You're right about picking it up in person, you'd have to pay the VAT then. I think VAT in France is 20%. Originally Posted by floatingpickup
From what I can recall that's still a decent savings over what either of the American dealers charge for them.
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I don't know how true the story is, however I heard there was some kind of labor dispute at the Dupont shop and it resulted in a slowdown of production. No timeframe was given, so this could have been years ago. Apparently over some working conditions.
Could be totally fake news.
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That’s my understanding as well. If you deduct the 20% VAT from the price on Dupont’s website, it would reduce the price from 3870€ to 3225€, which is about $3500 USD at today’s spot rate. Here in Canada, we would be required to pay duty and sales tax on an imported product that was made in France. I believe the same would apply to a buyer in the US. I haven’t looked up the duty rates, but I imagine duty and taxes would likely add up to about as much as the VAT savings. After that, plus shipping, it would likely end up costing $4000-$4500 to buy one from France and ship it to another country (depending on the actual import fees in your country). Since there aren’t any new ones for sale at US dealers, I’m not sure how that compares to what they would charge. If Michael at Djangobooks could sell one at a comparable price, that would be a safe way to go for anyone living in the US. I have had a few dealings with him and I was extremely happy with his customer service. However, if you live outside of the US, you would still be charged duty and taxes to import one from him, based on the country of origin (France). Originally Posted by olejason
Keith
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Duties & Customs charges in the US are kind of a crapshoot. Sometimes you'll get hit with fees and sometimes you won't. The rate itself depends on the country of origin. I ordered a $4k bass from Italy a few years ago which should have incurred fees but I never received a bill for anything. On the other hand I ordered a $200 gamba from China and had to pay fees.
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Reading through this thread there is profusive praise for Dupont but none for Barault, however Michael in his postings states Barault as "as one of the, if not the top luthier in Gypsy jazz" and "among the best Selmer copies being made today. Interesting no one here feels the same? Bireli seems to like Baraults OK.
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Michael is definitely a big fan of Barault and is pretty vocal about that support. He's also Barault's biggest dealer in the US. Tommy, who runs the other GJ store in America, is a pretty vocal critic of Barault... I've seen him and Barault get into a few spats on Facebook over the years. So there's some context there where you should take opinions from those two guys with a grain of salt when it comes to Barault. It's kind of the same deal with big name players using X brand guitars. GJ players are pretty notorious for just playing whatever they have access to and being happy with it! Originally Posted by chumlyshaver
In reality it's probably as simple as Dupont guitars just being far more common in American GJ circles than Barault. Lots of people like Barault's guitars and every one I've heard definitely has the sound. Many of Barault's guitars come with some degree of relic'ing which a lot of people don't like. You'll also find people criticize how he does frets. Essentially the fret is rounded off and the slot is left open on the edges of the fingerboard so there is a visible gap. Michael claims he does this because that's how Selmers were made but I haven't seen solid evidence to support that. It could be true I guess. You can see the fret slots in some of the pictures on this listing: Jean Barault Selmer 503 Replica Gypsy Jazz Guitar | eBay
I've been playing a Geronimo Mateos guitar for the last few years and have been very happy with it.
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My main guitar (I only play Django stuff) is a custom made Dupont MD-50. Tommy Davy had it built with an exact copy of the neck on his 1953 Selmer, and it's a spectacular instrument. I have only played a Barault very casually a couple of years ago, but it was not his studio model. I asked Tommy, who would you have build a Selmer copy, and Maurice and his team was the answer. The MD 50 has been played by some of the best, and Dupont's reputation as a spectacular Atelier is well-earned.
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Welcome to the Forum! I'm assuming you are referring to Michael of Djangobooks and the forum connected with it. Obviously this forum is more focused on Archtop guitars, and there are members here with every flavor from $500 Ibanez instruments to $50,000+ D'Angelicos. And multiples of each. Originally Posted by chumlyshaver
My guess is very few members here have actually played a Barault guitar, and over on the Djangobooks forum several have. Simply stated, Duponts are usually excellent instruments and there are a lot more out there to experience. Michael is a well regarded expert in the GJG world and his opinion carries a lot of weight.
And Birreli can make a solid body Yamaha sound wonderful-it's not the arrow, it's the Indian!
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When I was at Django a GoGo a couple of years ago, Paulus Schafer was one of the guest instructors. He brought a Gitane with him, and sounded better than anything I could ever hope to get out of my Dupont. I know that this point has been hammered into all of us, but it really is the player. A great guitar is wonderful when you have the funds, but we all know the instrument doesn't really make much of a difference in the ways that matter. Put in the work, you'll probably be able to make anything sound good. Originally Posted by chumlyshaver
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This is correct. I own some fine, valuable guitars (including 2 L-5's and 3 vintage D'Angelicos) and I gig with them (Sharing great instruments with the world is my duty and responsibility,IMO). I also sometimes gig with a partscaster Strat that I built for about $550 (Which sounds great for jazz BTW). I have gotten just as many compliments on my playing when playing the partscaster as I do with the vintage DA's. While nice guitars can inspire one to play more, inspired playing is what counts. Always. Originally Posted by JSanta
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Probably all of us fall into the trap at some point in thinking the gear matters way more than it does. It's a lot easier than practicing, so I get it, and I am absolutely guilty of it; heck, I am here posting a message when I have a lull in work instead of grabbing my guitar. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
And it's fun to talk about the merits of gear and instruments, and enjoy the process of it all. But none of that replaces the time and effort required to really be able to play. Some players don't care, they have no desire to get over each new hurdle, and just enjoy buying and talking about the gear, perhaps more than playing. And there's nothing wrong with that, no judgement. But for me, I'd really like to be a less shit guitarist some day, and no gear will fix that.
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