-
Starting to get real gigs. 3 hrs at a bar with nothing provided. As band leader I’ll need to provide a PA, nobody has one. A local pro blues player recommended QSC Kx.2. That’s a $1,000 powered speaker. Wondering what people here use.
For now I need something to get vocals over drums, bass, guitar and a horn in like… a VFW hall sized place.
Thanks.
-
12-31-2023 01:16 AM
-
Just got a Yamaha Stagepas 1k Mk2 a couple of months ago and love it. Previously had an Evox 8 and HK Audio Nano 305. They were great, too. Also have a JBL Eon One Compact for very small rooms. You can't go wrong with any of the newer column array units in my view.
QSC powered speakers are top notch from what I've listened to though I've never owned any. Seems like they are favored by a lot of the pros.
-
I think the Line Arrays sound great on stage and in the audience.
I've used the Bose L1 and the JBL model with 7 inputs. I thought both were great.
-
Do you just need something for the vocalist, or are you trying to amplify the entire group?
If it's just for vocals, does your guitar amp have a second clean channel that you could run the vocal through? And would it be powerful enough for your venue?
The other consideration is weight and portability. Maybe that doesn't matter when you're 20, 30 or 40, but after that, lugging heavy stuff around isn't fun anymore. I'm 73 and find that 25 pounds is about my lugging limit. That means you're probably limited to an 8" or a 10" speaker -- which should be fine for most small or medium-size gigs if you have enough horsepower behind it, say about 2-300 watts.
One thing to watch out for when comparing and buying a PA is the advertised wattage. Lots of companies will give a "peak" wattage of say, 300 watts. But that's the top instantaneous wattage before burnout, and not what the PA will deliver in the real world on a regular basis. That "regular" wattage is known as the "RMS" wattage, and that's the number you should be looking for. If an RMS wattage isn't specified, you should assume it's actually peak wattage instead. And to figure the RMS wattage from a peak wattage number, just divide it in half. That's right, a peak wattage of 300 is probably pretty close to about 150 RMS watts.
As for a PA recommendation for vocals only, I'd look at some powered speakers, which have the amp built into the speaker cabinet, so there's less stuff to lug around. Check out the Mackie Thump 212, the Alto TS408 and the QSC CP8. They're all fairly light and also lighter on the wallet. I use a 20-year-old PASO 8" 40-watt PA for vocals, but it's not in production anymore, so look at the powered PA's instead. Hope this is helpful! SETH
-
Thanks for the tips I’ll look into those.
I play through a blues jr, so just one channel on that.
This is going to be just vocals, I’m not ready for a venue that’s big enough to need full band amplification.
-
There's a guy in town that has been using the Bose line array system for a long time. Vocals and guitar, he doesn't use a guitar amp, doesn't have to haul very much and has a very small footprint. Plays, jazz, classical, rock etc. He's really got it down and has a following. He gets a great mix and sound and really fills the room. If I was going to do vocals and guitar, I'd just copy his rig. (He also leads the Steely Damned band in San Diego).
-
I use a TC Helicon Voice Solo. It has built in compression and reverb and two inputs. It’s 150 watts. Not sure if that’s loud enough for your purposes, but I’ve found it enough for what I do if only vocals are going through it.
-
Yeah, I almost forgot, you want to add a little -- just a little -- reverb into the vocal line when you're singing. But if you're making introductions or otherwise just speaking into the mic, be sure to turn the reverb off, otherwise you'll sound pretty strange! Some powered PA's include a reverb feature, but for others which don't, you'll probably want to include a reverb unit in your setup.
We use a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic, which offers a few different master reverb settings (room, club, hall, etc.) and then you can tweak it from there with the "Wet/Dry" knob to add or remove more reverb. There's also a pitch correction feature, which we've never used since our vocalist can actually sing and is on pitch about 99% of the time. The Helicon also has an built-in adjustable preamp, which helps to boost the mic signal before it hits the PA, a good feature. And plan on using an AC 9V adapter for this unit, otherwise you will get eaten alive by AA batteries.
We have an older version of the Helicon. The newer one is "TC Helicon Mic Mechanic 2," and includes another knob with more selections for echo, slap, etc., which you may or may not need. SETH
-
Uh, I'd ask the vocalist first, some of them can be quite picky - mic, preamp, speaker.
Older stuff can be found comparably cheap.
- Sennheiser MD 431 Profi Power (the older version much preferred)
- Mackie VLZ802VLZ4
- RCF Art 310A
-
That's a good point. Some vocalists will bring their own mics, but very few do that in my experience -- most of them expect you to provide one. If the sound isn't to their liking or your liking, I guess you could always try to tweak it a little bit with treble/bass controls, if you have them in the vocal line.
I've also found that some singers like to "eat the mic" by putting it very close to their mouths. Why they think this is a good idea is beyond me, since it tends to bring out way too much bass. Maybe they're copying the rappers or something they saw on YouTube? SETH
-
I’m the vocalist too, so I won’t have to worry about keeping someone else happy. If I was feeling out a vocalist and they didn’t have a PA… well, I wouldn’t hire them.
You eat the mic to get more volume, it’s how it works in the small time. Gotta get close enough to block the band overpowering the vocals in the microphone.
-
I started with two Alto TS110A s and liked them a lot. Now I have three of them since I found another used one in great condition. 25 lbs, simple to use and plenty of loudness.
-
You sing close to the mic so you don't have to turn the pa up so much that you get feedback.
-
For a singing guitarist or a guitar/vocals duo, there's a lot of two-channel troubadour amps to choose from. A lot less to lug, if you can leave your guitar amp home. The Bose-style single column systems work for sure. You can get used PA rigs for small money, but sounds like overkilling (at least your back) in your case.
My solution slots between Bose-style and traditional, heavy, PA speaker pairs. I'm using an old Yamaha Stagepas 200 mixer amp and a pair of Toob Metro 6.5FR II+ full-range cabs. The + version comes with a stand mount with 3/8" UNC thread and 1/4" UNC adapter. The speakers handle 130W each and weigh a tad over 4 lbs. Lightweight light stands are all they need. Behringer makes a similar mixer amp (with phantom power). You can also use a mini-mixer and a micro power amp. The whole set weighs around 15 lbs.
The attached photo is from my son's 50th birthday last August. An all-Toob night. One of the two PA speakers in view (far left, orange rims.) It's Anu Sin (vocals), Henrik Laine (bass), my younger son Mikko (drums), elder son Tuomas (lead guitar) and grandson Ohto (rhythm guitar.) I won't pester you with a video, because it was all rawk. The upright Metro on the floor served as a monitor for the drummer and vocalist.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
I guess I have to make the disclaimer about financial interest in Toobs and Metros again.
-
I'm most definitely in the small time, too; "eating the mic" is just a pet peeve of mine. If the vocalist is having problems being heard, either the band needs to tone it down or the vocalist needs a little more volume from the amp. Most of the time I think the band is having a little too much fun and unintentionally gets too loud, so we sometimes need to bring it down a notch. We're always dealing with balance issues, and they can usually be solved that way.
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
BTW, congrats on getting some gigs and putting a group together, that's great news! Best of luck with it!! SETH
-
The band turning down solves an awful lot of problems on gigs, but it's a solution that few people ever think of. Mostly they're trying to be heard over the drummer, so if you can get the drummer to turn down 90% of your battle is won.
My old band used a small non-amped mixer and QSC powered speakers, which sounded great but the guy who bought them for the band was a doctor and had plenty of cash handy for those expenditures. I have an Alto TS110a which is a fine little powered speaker, not as good as the QSC's but a quarter of the price. In fact, I think I bought it used for $100 at Music-go-round. In a small venue, a mixer to manage EQ/reverb and one speaker would probably be enough to cover the need; two speakers if the venue is horizontally wide enough to benefit from greater coverage.
-
Our drummer suggested that he could use "rods" instead of sticks. That was a good idea and it did cut down his volume quite a bit. He also changed the beater on his bass drum from cork or whatever to a felt or cloth beater, which was also good. But when he switched to brushes for the slow numbers, he still needed to be miked for those. Go figure! SETH Originally Posted by Cunamara
-
Volume is a pet peeve, partly because of hearing issues.
Some people running sound (I'm including bands who do their own sound) seem to set levels by inducing feedback and cranking it back as little as possible. I've never understood that.
To get a band to play quietly everybody has to buy in. That can be hardest for the drummer. Some complain that the sticks don't bounce right and it's hard to play. Others switch to those ratty looking red stick substitutes, make a big point about that and then sound just as loud while complimenting themselves on their quietude. I've had a chance to play with some world class drummers -- these guys were not afraid of brushes and controlled volume really well. But it's not just the drummer. Everybody has to buy in.
Not that this happens, but it seems to me that the complaints you get about volume should be equally distributed between too loud or too soft.
My experience is that too loud is much more common than too soft.
-
I really like the Bose systems. Not having to set up stands and put speakers on them is not only a time saver but a huge savings on floor space. I’ll add that the Bose S1 Pro makes a fine monitor and not having to run a power cord to it super convenient. Some people hate Bose (never the audience) It throws the sound around without being obtrusive.
I’ve done hundreds of gigs with mine and recommend it.
-
My wife does a duo with a guy, and backing tracks, using a Mackie SRM-Flex. Sounds pretty good to me.
SRM-Flex | Portable PA Systems | MACKIE
Access to this page has been denied.
-
A couple years ago I ditched all the cords, boxes and speaker stands and went with the EV Evolve 30. I auditioned the JBL, Bose and EV units and found the EV the best choice for our duo. At first I plugged straight into the guitar channel but was not completely happy with the sound, so I began to tote my Evans JE 200 along and line out to the EV. Superb sound, but got tired of hauling the Evans around and got a Little Jazz 12. Not quite as wonderful as the Evans but very, very close.
I really appreciate the Bluetooth mixer app on my phone.
-
Nice looking clan there.
-
I think I'm stuck between QSC and a Bose S1. I'm too conservative to go with one of these columns.
-
I reread your opening post...VFW halls for the most part? Those can be terrible sounding rooms or could be great and they can be big. Do you need monitors? How many singers? Anybody else need to plug into the PA? If you only need one or two mics for vox you can daisy chain two S1's together and you wouldn't even need a board. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
A Bose column and one of those Bose S1 Pros would be ideal. You could use the S1 as another column, a monitor or point it to some other part of the room to include some other part of the audience. The towers have a way of filling the room without being too aggressive right in front of them like the QSC's might be.
Sound men love to sh*t on Bose but I've had nothing but good luck with mine. And they are super easy to carry and set-up. That's a big deal to keep your head straight and not be too hectic before a gig.
Two of the Bose S1 Pros would make for an extremely versatile set-up for smaller size rooms. Not having to run power cords to them them is a bigger dealt then it mas seem. In a small room you could place two on the floor behind you tilted up to serve as both monitors and house. Or you could put them on stands or chairs or a table. I've done it all with those little S1's. The best bang for the buck piece of gear I ever bought and they have never been cheaper then right now.
Singer's love Bose. Even talking to the audience is clearer.
-
Has anyone tried the Yamaha Stagepas 200? It seems like a lot of power and flexibility for a small unit and has n optional battery pack.
STAGEPAS 200 - Overview - PA Systems - Professional Audio - Products - Yamaha - Canada - English
Reply With Quote
Musima Record
Yesterday, 08:47 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos