Fender Tone Master Pro - New Pedal that has all Tone Master sounds and more

[Christian Miller]

I think the whole modelling strategy from Fender was to convert people who otherwise wouldn't. That's certainly true for the Tone Master amps, and with this pedal the first thing that caught's everyone's attention is how easy and simple it is to use. A lot of people want modelling, but don't want to go the Kemper or Axe-FX route, which implies a learning curve. Even the Helix, which is simple to use, needs a few tricks to sound right. If the TM Pro does not need it, it will help people who never bothered with modelling maybe at least try it.

I never done studio work but I can see two scenarios (and this applies to any modelling pedal, not just this one):

1) when you're a session player and need to have a lot of different sounds ready to record very fast. It's hard to have, say, five different amps miced and all that - it's just a lot faster to use a pedal and presets.

2) even if you're recording say, a jazz group record, and you'll be uing the same sound for the entire record, it can be tricky to record with amps and mics. You need the studio to have the amp you want, the mic to be placed at the right spot (a lot harder than it seems), etc... If you have the luxury of studio time and you know the studio well, then going with an amp/mic should work fine. But a lot of the times you don't, and getting to studio with your preset already made usually yelds much better results. I've heard first hand a lot of pro jazz guitar players very annoyed on how their sound worked on a certain record and it's all down to the same reason - they had to get there, gear up in 5 minutes and record and it's very hard to get your sound in those conditions.

Playing live is not the same, but when I brought my own amp for a gig and it had to be miced, it was rarely a nice experience - bad mics, bad mic positionment, very hard to dial a good sound at the right volume, etc... When I switched to modelers, the consistency was what sold me - my sound was almost always the same. I could use impulse responses of speakers I love, like a JBL; that are very heavy to carry and hard to find in Europe. You can go stereo. Etc... The problem then becomes proper monitors....

Good points! At home my sound on my album that much and that was my gear! These days I plug in and use a logic plug in for the guitar sound for videos, and I prefer the sound.

I think if you can eliminate variables that’s good. Gives you more time to work on the drum sound which is the important thing…

I like using my amp for gigs, but if I played more shows in theatres I would probably get a modeller. Tbh I’m not working much at the moment so it’s something of a moot point.

Sounds like the fender unit has some very useful functions.

[Woodstove]

Are there one or more fender tweed amps in the TMP? I haven’t seen one demo’d yet.

[Navdeep_Singh]

By the way, the Fender reps said that the Fender Tweed amps are “really hard to model, they will model them and put them out, but won’t release it till it’s perfecto”. (Their words).

I wonder why the Fender Tweed amps are so much harder to model than a Twin or Princeton or Deluxe reverb (those are the three Fender amps I know and like).

[jorgemg1984]

Good points! At home my sound on my album that much and that was my gear! These days I plug in and use a logic plug in for the guitar sound for videos, and I prefer the sound.

I think if you can eliminate variables that’s good. Gives you more time to work on the drum sound which is the important thing…

I like using my amp for gigs, but if I played more shows in theatres I would probably get a modeller. Tbh I’m not working much at the moment so it’s something of a moot point.

Sounds like the fender unit has some very useful functions.

Yeah, I have briefly messed with plugins (overloud and helix native) and both sounded very good, specially the overloud. If you record videos, they're an excellent tool, but just for practice at home, I prefer to avoid a computer and it's many distractions, if possible.

One critical aspect of any digital rig is, of course, a good IR (or a good cab block) and konwing how to use eq.

I agree, the Fender seems like a great product, despite some oddities (six years of R&D and you can't change the tuner 440hz frequency?!). but for a jazzer you probably can get something in the ball park for a lot less money. The small helix products need for some a reason a fair amount of hi-cut, but once you do that, they're excellent and very small and cheap.

A few more points are:

1) in a studio, the more people go direct (no mics), the less "bleeding" and it makes it much easier to record everyone in the same room instead of the horrible "booth" solution. If you're recording a guitar trio and the guitar and the bass go DI, only the drums are miced and it makes it much easier.

2) in a gig, specially on a medium venue like a typical jazz club or a small auditorium, when the guitar player uses an amp on stage people in the front will hear a weird mix of the actual amp and the amp trough the pa and people in the back will hear only the miced amp trough the PA. These two sounds are usually quite different - if you use a modeler, provided there's monitoring or you can hear the PA system well on stage, what you hear is what the audience hears and you avoid that weird "mix".

3) if you live in a crowded city (or crowded and full of hills, as mine), as I think you do, getting out of the house with a guitar bag on your back and a gear bag with a modeler and a few cables on your shoulder is spectacular compared to taking an amp, even if you have a trolley....

[Woodstove]

By the way, the Fender reps said that the Fender Tweed amps are “really hard to model, they will model them and put them out, but won’t release it till it’s perfecto”. (Their words).

I wonder why the Fender Tweed amps are so much harder to model than a Twin or Princeton or Deluxe reverb (those are the three Fender amps I know and like).

Thanks, I'm not surprised. These are very complicated to model, and unlike any other of their amps. There are 2 volume controls, one called "instrument" the other "mic". They interact in strange and wonderful ways and much of the tweed tones comes from that interaction, from clean and jazz workable to Neil Young screaming. Then the tone control is also very unusual and actually becomes more of an overdrive at a certain level. The UA Woodrow absolutely gets all of this making it a brilliant pedal and maybe the only must have of their line up as other brands get the deluxe reverb and Vox well. UA is the best at this sort of complex modeling IMO.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah, I have briefly messed with plugins (overloud and helix native) and both sounded very good, specially the overloud. If you record videos, they're an excellent tool, but just for practice at home, I prefer to avoid a computer and it's many distractions, if possible.

One critical aspect of any digital rig is, of course, a good IR (or a good cab block) and konwing how to use eq.

I agree, the Fender seems like a great product, despite some oddities (six years of R&D and you can't change the tuner 440hz frequency?!). but for a jazzer you probably can get something in the ball park for a lot less money. The small helix products need for some a reason a fair amount of hi-cut, but once you do that, they're excellent and very small and cheap.

A few more points are:

1) in a studio, the more people go direct (no mics), the less "bleeding" and it makes it much easier to record everyone in the same room instead of the horrible "booth" solution. If you're recording a guitar trio and the guitar and the bass go DI, only the drums are miced and it makes it much easier

Thats very true.

2) in a gig, specially on a medium venue like a typical jazz club or a small auditorium, when the guitar player uses an amp on stage people in the front will hear a weird mix of the actual amp and the amp trough the pa and people in the back will hear only the miced amp trough the PA. These two sounds are usually quite different - if you use a modeler, provided there's monitoring or you can hear the PA system well on stage, what you hear is what the audience hears and you avoid that weird "mix".

3) if you live in a crowded city (or crowded and full of hills, as mine), as I think you do, getting out of the house with a guitar bag on your back and a gear bag with a modeler and a few cables on your shoulder is spectacular compared to taking an amp, even if you have a trolley....

I mean it works if there’s PA at the venue. If not you still need some sort of frfr powered monitor.

One thing I don’t really like the whole monitor thing, tbh. I’d rather have my own speaker/amp if possible. Always. The sound through monitors is always a bit weird and you have to deal with a third party to set your stage level.

Another issue is that modellers don’t provide all the effect I use. I think one of the Boss units has the OC3 polyphonic octave pedal that use a surprisingly large amount, and things like the El Pescadoro (Octal Amp simulator) and Freeze/Gamechanger type pedals I don’t think are widely emulated. So if I wanted those sounds I’d need to bring those.

ATM I use a Quilter Superblock (which is of course an modelling amp) and a TOOB speaker. It works pretty well but I’m really not crazy about the quilter DI. I’m on the lookout for something similar but better. (I suppose I could get an Iridium and a Seymour Duncan power amp.)

Things like acoustic IR’s are good - I’ve used a Tonedexter live with fantastic results. And these are afaik available in the Line 6 units, and probs the fender as well?

OTOH the idea of spending time getting used to the UI and getting my presets set up fills me with apathy. I have enough trouble finding time to change my strings haha. My guitar/music time is at a premium and the idea of spending any of it dealing with menus on a computer … urgh, no thanks. Give me knobs! I’m a dinosaur honestly.

Does sound like the Fender may be more boomer friendly. I also really really like that it has a phantom xlr input .

I think I’d have to work with a unit like this… atm it’s sort of a moot point… but I’m interested in what other people find with the new unit.

[Woodstove]

"and things like the El Pescadoro (Octal Amp simulator) and Freeze/Gamechanger type pedals I don’t think are widely emulated. So if I wanted those sounds I’d need to bring those. "

Absolutely! I just got the El Pescadoro and it is beautiful and unique. No one is modeling Octal Tube Amps and the preamp has soul. Plus the reverb is the Chess Records echo chambers, very distinctive sound, nailed by the pedal and not modeled. It's like the Woodrow, there are pedals that are very musical and not (yet?) modeled. And I also really like having speakers! One of the best features of the TM Twin and deluxe is the quality (not just weight) of the speakers in the blonde versions.

[Christian Miller]

"and things like the El Pescadoro (Octal Amp simulator) and Freeze/Gamechanger type pedals I don’t think are widely emulated. So if I wanted those sounds I’d need to bring those. "

Absolutely! I just got the El Pescadoro and it is beautiful and unique. No one is modeling Octal Tube Amps and the preamp has soul. Plus the reverb is the Chess Records echo chambers, very distinctive sound, nailed by the pedal and not modeled. It's like the Woodrow, there are pedals that are very musical and not (yet?) modeled. And I also really like having speakers! One of the best features of the TM Twin and deluxe is the quality (not just weight) of the speakers in the blonde versions.

I think the line 6 has an octal model (EH-150) but it didn’t sound great to me

tbh I don’t use the Pescadoro that often (it’s a niche sound), but I have recorded with it, and it sounds fab through my Princeton

[John A.]

Yeah, I have briefly messed with plugins (overloud and helix native) and both sounded very good, specially the overloud. If you record videos, they're an excellent tool, but just for practice at home, I prefer to avoid a computer and it's many distractions, if possible.

One critical aspect of any digital rig is, of course, a good IR (or a good cab block) and konwing how to use eq.

I agree, the Fender seems like a great product, despite some oddities (six years of R&D and you can't change the tuner 440hz frequency?!). but for a jazzer you probably can get something in the ball park for a lot less money. The small helix products need for some a reason a fair amount of hi-cut, but once you do that, they're excellent and very small and cheap.

A few more points are:

1) in a studio, the more people go direct (no mics), the less "bleeding" and it makes it much easier to record everyone in the same room instead of the horrible "booth" solution. If you're recording a guitar trio and the guitar and the bass go DI, only the drums are miced and it makes it much easier.

2) in a gig, specially on a medium venue like a typical jazz club or a small auditorium, when the guitar player uses an amp on stage people in the front will hear a weird mix of the actual amp and the amp trough the pa and people in the back will hear only the miced amp trough the PA. These two sounds are usually quite different - if you use a modeler, provided there's monitoring or you can hear the PA system well on stage, what you hear is what the audience hears and you avoid that weird "mix".

3) if you live in a crowded city (or crowded and full of hills, as mine), as I think you do, getting out of the house with a guitar bag on your back and a gear bag with a modeler and a few cables on your shoulder is spectacular compared to taking an amp, even if you have a trolley....

How useful a device like this comes down to the environment where you play. In mine, actual music clubs/venues mostly have backlines (and minimal PA’s), so if you’re OK with taking what you get you don’t need one of these. OTOH, restaurants, events, etc. usual don’t have anything, so you still need a power amp/cab at a minimum.

So I don’t think I’d ever be able to walk out of the house with just a modeler, except to a recording session. So there’s no real advantage to this kind of unit hereabouts unless you really like the sounds and/or play music that calls on multiple presets. Otherwise, small/light combos are far more useful, and that’s what you see at gigs and jams.

[Christian Miller]

How useful a device like this comes down to the environment where you play. In mine, actual music clubs/venues mostly have backlines (and minimal PA’s), so if you’re OK with taking what you get you don’t need one of these. OTOH, restaurants, events, etc. usual don’t have anything, so you still need a power amp/cab at a minimum.

So I don’t think I’d ever be able to walk out of the house with just a modeler, except to a recording session. So there’s no real advantage to this kind of unit hereabouts unless you really like the sounds and/or play music that calls on multiple presets. Otherwise, small/light combos are far more useful, and that’s what you see at gigs and jams.

yeah bottom line, if I see a fender hot rod let alone a deluxe or something at a gig I’m a happy boy. And a lot of places do. My local pub has a Fender TM Twin. Other than that, a model we might come in handy but I don’t see me making it the centre of my rig atm.

[Navdeep_Singh]

How useful a device like this comes down to the environment where you play. In mine, actual music clubs/venues mostly have backlines (and minimal PA’s), so if you’re OK with taking what you get you don’t need one of these. OTOH, restaurants, events, etc. usual don’t have anything, so you still need a power amp/cab at a minimum.

So I don’t think I’d ever be able to walk out of the house with just a modeler, except to a recording session. So there’s no real advantage to this kind of unit hereabouts unless you really like the sounds and/or play music that calls on multiple presets. Otherwise, small/light combos are far more useful, and that’s what you see at gigs and jams.

the smallest footprint for use with this is a TOOB with a small pedal powered amp, like a Seymour Duncan PowerStage. Like the Kemper, et al, it’s still a sophisticated “pre-amp”. Or a good small 8” speaker, like an older Buscarino cab I have, along with the Seymour Duncan PowerStage amp pedal.

[jorgemg1984]

Thats very true.



I mean it works if there’s PA at the venue. If not you still need some sort of frfr powered monitor.

One thing I don’t really like the whole monitor thing, tbh. I’d rather have my own speaker/amp if possible. Always. The sound through monitors is always a bit weird and you have to deal with a third party to set your stage level.

Another issue is that modellers don’t provide all the effect I use. I think one of the Boss units has the OC3 polyphonic octave pedal that use a surprisingly large amount, and things like the El Pescadoro (Octal Amp simulator) and Freeze/Gamechanger type pedals I don’t think are widely emulated. So if I wanted those sounds I’d need to bring those.

ATM I use a Quilter Superblock (which is of course an modelling amp) and a TOOB speaker. It works pretty well but I’m really not crazy about the quilter DI. I’m on the lookout for something similar but better. (I suppose I could get an Iridium and a Seymour Duncan power amp.)

Things like acoustic IR’s are good - I’ve used a Tonedexter live with fantastic results. And these are afaik available in the Line 6 units, and probs the fender as well?

OTOH the idea of spending time getting used to the UI and getting my presets set up fills me with apathy. I have enough trouble finding time to change my strings haha. My guitar/music time is at a premium and the idea of spending any of it dealing with menus on a computer … urgh, no thanks. Give me knobs! I’m a dinosaur honestly.

Does sound like the Fender may be more boomer friendly. I also really really like that it has a phantom xlr input .

I think I’d have to work with a unit like this… atm it’s sort of a moot point… but I’m interested in what other people find with the new unit.

I agree, if you need to bring your own monitor the point is moot - it's the same as bringing a small amp. And, yeah, I personally don't use any "weird" fx but for those who use it's probably not that useful either.

You can load acoustic IRs on any of them - it's usually a good idea to check if they have a "mix" function, not all have. In my experience, it's good to blend the IR with a little pickup sound. They also have compressors and tube preamps, which all sound good with acoustics.

Yes, there's a learning curve. Once you get past that, it's great - I usually get a sound I like very fast on any modeler, although some are a lot more complicated than others.

[jorgemg1984]

How useful a device like this comes down to the environment where you play. In mine, actual music clubs/venues mostly have backlines (and minimal PA’s), so if you’re OK with taking what you get you don’t need one of these. OTOH, restaurants, events, etc. usual don’t have anything, so you still need a power amp/cab at a minimum.

So I don’t think I’d ever be able to walk out of the house with just a modeler, except to a recording session. So there’s no real advantage to this kind of unit hereabouts unless you really like the sounds and/or play music that calls on multiple presets. Otherwise, small/light combos are far more useful, and that’s what you see at gigs and jams.

I haven't been gigging for the last few years, but when I did I played out frequently and it was VERY useful. Restaurants here rarely have live music (which is bad for musicians but good for customers IMHO), so it's basically a mix between small clubs and auditoriums. Both usually have PAs and monitors, but not always. When there's none, usually hotels don't have a PA, you'd need a small amp.

Also, and this comes down to taste, I don't enjoy "jazz amps" these days - I grew very tired of the flat-frequency small ported cab with a bass speaker sound. So, if there's a PA, and usually here there's one, I can get a great Fender sound from a very small package.

[Navdeep_Singh]

The guy who designed the Tonedexter (and also worked as an engineer consultant in John Buscarino’s Chameleon amp) is named James May, and he lives here in the Sierra, in Grass Valley, CA.

I drove up there for him to install his excellent contact pickup in my Brahms guitar. I use the Tonedexter settings with the Brahms guitar as well. Excellent system.

By the way, Mr. May also charges beaucoup bucks to program people’s ……..Fractal AxeFx. He is an engineer, after all. what does that tell you about Fractal??

[John A.]

I haven't been gigging for the last few years, but when I did I played out frequently and it was VERY useful. Restaurants here rarely have live music (which is bad for musicians but good for customers IMHO), so it's basically a mix between small clubs and auditoriums. Both usually have PAs and monitors, but not always. When there's none, usually hotels don't have a PA, you'd need a small amp.

Also, and this comes down to taste, I don't enjoy "jazz amps" these days - I grew very tired of the flat-frequency small ported cab with a bass speaker sound. So, if there's a PA, and usually here there's one, I can get a great Fender sound from a very small package.

I don’t usually like “jazz” amps either, though it depends on the specific combination of amp and guitar to a degree. I use a small modeling combo amp mostly.

[jorgemg1984]

I don’t usually like “jazz” amps either, though it depends on the specific combination of amp and guitar to a degree. I use a small modeling combo amp mostly.

Which one?

[John A.]

Which one?

Fender Champion 20. I also just ordered a Quilter Aviator Cub, which if it turns out to be a keeper will replace a Princeton Reverb as my bigger/louder amp (much lighter than a PR).

[jorgemg1984]

Fender Champion 20. I also just ordered a Quilter Aviator Cub, which if it turns out to be a keeper will replace a Princeton Reverb as my bigger/louder amp (much lighter than a PR).

Thanks for the tip, I'll check the Champion!

[Irishmuso]

From a Beta Tester (apparently):

That pricing is a mistake, its going to compete directly with Fractal, QC and Helix, it'll be $1699 Retail

So £1699 in the UK...gulp! Thank goodness I've evolved into a guitar-cable-amp guy.

[jorgemg1984]

Well, one thing is certain, the convolution spring reverb sounds INCREDIBLE.

[Navdeep_Singh]

Well, one thing is certain, the convolution spring reverb sounds INCREDIBLE.

Yeah, I was that. The reverb is really awesome. If I can paraphrase the sort of consensus from the discussions, and the reviews, there is a level of angst because people are saying: “yeah, the cleans are great, better than the other modelers. The reverb, delay and effects are really good, and while the playability has same feel of playing a real amp, and the cleans, reverb and effects are better than the rest, I’m not really as convinced as I need to be playing Slayer-Maiden-Metallica”

Im like: what’s the problem here? There is no problem, lol.

[Christian Miller]

Or you could get the Quad Cortex, they’ve just dropped the price

Not knocked out by the way the Fender unit sounds on clips. One would have to try it for ‘the feel.’

[jorgemg1984]

Or you could get the Quad Cortex, they’ve just dropped the price

Not knocked out by the way the Fender unit sounds on clips. One would have to try it for ‘the feel.’

Yeah, the Quad Cortex seems like a beter solution. Lighter, with a much better looper, freeze pedal and captures. That's the one I would get. Ah, and stereo guitar inputs.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah, the Quad Cortex seems like a beter solution. Lighter, with a much better looper, freeze pedal and captures. That's the one I would get. Ah, and stereo guitar inputs.

I daresay the pros are still mostly using Fractal tho… quite a bit pricier for the new version

[jorgemg1984]

I daresay the pros are still mostly using Fractal tho… quite a bit pricier for the new version

I wouldn't be so sure - you see a lot of Kempers on stages and studios and I just read yesterday, no sure if it's true, the Quad Cortez has been the best selling modelling unit over the last few years on Thomann. Thomann is the biggest online worldwide seller by far... it surprised me a lot, I'll try to see if it's true.

The Fractal is very hard to use, evern for a seasoned pro, although it sounds very good.