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I've been itching to get a semi-hollow for a few months now. I have been leafing through previous posts and threads, but feel like asking directly.
I have an Ibanez Artstar AF120 from 1998 (Korean made) that I bought last year and it's great - considering it was only 500 Euros. I love the neck on this guitar.
So, I naturally feel gravitated towards Ibanez for the semi-hollow; it seems to me that there is a consensus that they offer a good deal regarding value for money, but there's TONS of models to choose from.
First of all I need to stress that I am looking for something around the 1000 Euros mark...
All things considered, would you say that a vintage Japanese guitar from the 1980s is a considerably better choice than a brand new AS113-BS or an AM153QA (Indonesian made) which are some of the options on my radar that are going for around 1000 Euros? There's also a possibility of buying an AS120 from 1998 (Korean made), for half the price, but that's perhaps like buying the same guitar twice...
My problem is that I live in a relatively small town and there's no possibility of me going to the local shop (there's only one) and trying a few out. So I have to go with mail order, or travel to the nearest town where someone is selling his.
I guess what I'm asking is: the Made In Japan thing - is it the real deal, or is it a fetish for collectors etc? I have a Japanese made ESP Ron Wood Telecaster which is a very fine instrument, solid and heavy with a wonderful neck, but never had the opportunity to try out an Ibanez semi-hollow. Is the MIJ Super 58 that much of a "wow factor"?
And if you think that there is absolutely no comparison, and the Japanese guitars are without a question a much better choice, then please help me understand why that is? I know it sounds stupid but I'm obsessing about it.
Would you buy a used guitar from the early 1980s without having tried it, and sent by delivery? What would you ask the seller to make sure that the instrument is not damaged in any way?
Thanks for your understanding
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09-01-2023 06:14 PM
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I personally don't love the feel of the Indonesian Ibanez guitars. Yes, they are still consistent and they obviously still have good designs and quality control. But with something that you will hug close to you for hours upon hours the little nuances tend to build up, even if only noticed subconsciously.
I love my made in China Ibanez 335 copy. I also played on a friends older Ibanez made in China and as an older one it was quite different, and I also like it a lot. Another friend has an Eastman 335 copy, of course made in China, and also quite nice to play. So perhaps made in China is something to consider.
When it comes to made in Japan, I think it's worth finding out in which factory it is actually made. Ibanez has used various factories over the years. Most of the Japanese factories seem to be recognized for good work.
I have an Archtop Tribute made in the Terada factory that is also known for making Gretsch guitars. In the past they made Ibanez as well as some Epiphones and others. I find the quality of the Terada guitar to be exemplary.
In my opinion, there is a noticeable difference between my American, Japanese, and Chinese guitars. It's not necessarily even a difference in quality, but just the overall feel of the instrument. The Indonesian guitars I have had and tried just don't cut it for me, I find they actually really do suffer in quality.
I'm convinced the older the better, because the woods used even a few years ago were superior to the woods they use today. That is simply my opinion, I could be way wrong.
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Buy the 120 again. They're a rare treasure and essentially a Korean bodied version of the top of the line AS200. Back in the day, Ibanez made Fujigen top of the line AS200, not the Artstar but the Prestige guitar. It was a best seller because John Scofield had one and he loved it to death and played his to death. They were real popular but out of the price range of many, so Hoshino Gakki (parent company) had made a spec for spec (including an indistinguishable neck duplicate) in Korea, I believe Samick made it. These were the diamond fleur de lais type headstock AS120, not the Artstar ornate inlay that came later in the 90's in the Cort factory with the trapezoidal headstock.
If you can find one of these, snatch it up. It's the prize of the line and I think of them as the affordable version of Sco's guitar.
They were only made a few years, 'til 95 I believe before they changed factories. Like many Ibanez guitars with the same name designation, actual guitars, factory and country of origin change depending on the year, some even changing within the year and run.
Hoshino looks for the best offerings from Asian factories and has them build with the Ibanez name. Occasionally they get it REALLY right and the early AS120 is an example. As some point, Cort offered a similar spec but not as nice in my opinion, and Hoshino went with them without changing the name, so it's confusing.
As to the rest of the line, they have similar specs on paper, but you do need to know the year, factory and country of manufacture to really get the full picture. Factours like wood available, construction technique, electronics and even finish application can differ a lot though the catalog lists the same specs.
I worked for Ibanez so I knew when a crate of guitars started coming from a different factory, but they did have the same specs. Some factories and countries had extremely uniform wood, some didn't, some differed quite a bit from hard maple blocks to woods that couldn't hold a thread and felt like balsa.
But the early AS120... there's a reason I have three of them in my store; they're the bargain treasure of the Ibanez line in the same way the Korean Peerless JS10 Benson was too good to be true. Also short lived in the Ibanez catalog.
I hope this helps.
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Yes it helps enormously. Thank you
So, you used to work for Ibanez?? I have so many questions!
How about the Japanese smaller body guitars like the As50 or the Am50 from the early 80s?
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And regarding the AS120, these are not the same pickups as the original MIJ super 58, am I right? Doesn’t it make a huge difference?
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Yes, back then, the ones fitted to the first generation AS120 were for all intents and purposes, super 58 pickups used in the 200. Another reason they're sought after. I happened not to like those Ibanez pickups, so I always switched them out for Duncan 59's and threw the Ibanez PU's in a box. I had one fitted this way and I showed it to Sco when it was done. He liked it. He also commented that those particular 120's were really special. He liked them and he knew his Ibanez guitars.
Originally Posted by Grigoris
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The high baroque for Ibanez when all those guitars were made in the Fujigen facility. Excellent guitars in craft, materials and design. Ibanez was going all out on those guitars and every one I've ever seen was amazing. Even the electronics were wired to a standard unseen to this day: Pots encased in insulating fitted chambers and wrapped in foil. They were a dime a dozen in the day. I should have bought them as an investment. The little ones would later serve as inspiration for the Gibson ES-339, and to this day the AS50 is unequalled in my book. Ben Monder's constant companion is one of those. A few years ago he was concerned that his guitar wouldn't last forever. I had my AS50 fitted with Gibson PAF pickups which I didn't play anymore when I began playing 7 strings. I gave mine to him so he should be all set for a while. Originally Posted by Grigoris
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If you had the choice between the two (As50 and Am50) from 1980-1983, which would you choose?
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It'd depend on the condition. If both were clear of any overt damage, I'd take them both, ha ha. The AS50 is harder to find and for me, a perfect size between 339 size and 335 size, and I love them. Strictly personal fit. Like I happen to like size 9 shoes. Originally Posted by Grigoris
By the way, Gibson made a ES336 that was a little like their entry into that niche. It didn't work out for them. Interesting to note that those guitars back then, and they cranked them out to the target rock, jazz and anybody demographic, ALL sported the now collectable Super58 pickups. Very few of those guitars exist now. And in come circles those pickups are the bee's knees. Somewhere in heaven there's a mountain of those pickups.
In all the time I worked for Ibanez, I didn't come across anything that excited me the way those vintage early 80's guitars did. They did have a show room where their guitars hung on walls in frames. The JP20 still drew me back to that room constantly. Great era for them. My preference over anything that came afterwords. But that's STRICTLY my narrow minded opinion. I was always aware that they had great bang for the buck and the greatest potential for upgrade. I got a lot of seconds in my time there and each one was bought specifically as a project guitar that I'd take great delight in customizing to the max, then passing on to friends who were working musicians. A lot of worthy guitars to be had. All the greater the need to do them justice through playing them as intended.
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In my limited experience, MIJ Ibanez quality is definitely a real thing. I have the JSM20th, a limited edition 20th anniversary Scofield model from 2022 which is an exact replica of one of Scofield's two main Ibanez semis. A high precision masterpiece, made I believe at Hoshino. A few of the features are in the woods used (mahogany neck), shielded electronics, radiused neck with a quite chunky profile, and the pickups which are called "Ladybug Special" on the specs sheet (just to add one more layer to the Super 58 intrigue). It's very resonant and has some weight to it. A "JCustom" label was in the case. I find it exceptional and like it better than the Ib AS53 and the Eastman T386 I used to have. The price was equivalent to a little over 2k euros at a guitar show.
Hope that helped. Jimmy Blue Note is an Ibanez living encyclopedia and I would trust his assessment of non MIJ models if those are not an option. I missed an auction on a beautiful AS120 years ago so never had one in my hands.
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some more infos
I have had a 95/96 narrow headstock
af120 as my main box for ages and still love it ….
but I’ve had to do a bit of tweaking to it over the years
new SC switch (cos it failed)
new SC jack (ditto)
both easy to do DIY
more recently fitted new neck pu
(it had developed an intermittent loud
buzz)
wiring and pots are absolutely fine ….
the original Korean S58 i found to be fine ….
but since putting in a Bare Knuckle alnico 4 Mule the tone is noticably a bit smoother/better
but not by a huge difference
I more recently bought a newish
af2000 which is better finished
(ie perfect) a bit heavier built ,
with a slightly wider neck
It has a slightly better more
solid cool jazz voice ….
but i still love the old af120
which is actually better at funky/
bluesy things (for my taste)
hope that helps
(but probably doesn’t)
cos instruments are all individuals
you know , you gotta play the
actual instrument really
(but you know that)
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Just my $.02, but the only real difference between my '81 AS200 and my '19 AS200 is the shape of the headstock. The AS50s I've played were also amazing, as was the LR10 I played. I would love to own an LR10, but haven't (yet!).
Last edited by jim777; 09-02-2023 at 01:28 PM.
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If I were in the market for an Ibanez semi I’d keep my eyes peeled for an AS180. These were made in the 90s and were the same as an AS200, but without the bling and with the bigger Artstar headstock. They don’t pop up very often, but when they do they tend to be cheap.
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Maybe the most difficult to find. They were actually hollow with a foam interior to prevent feedback. These were Fujigen hollow bodies in the 335 size with custom pickups. They're really rare. I hope you find one. Originally Posted by jim777
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The LR10’s have really strange necks. It’s almost a square neck with the corners rounded off and it’s the same shape all the way up. It doesn’t taper.
I’m assuming the best option is for the op to get an mij AS50 or AS80.
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Ibanez is not the only japanese brand worth considering ! I can attest to the superb build quality, sound and playability of the YAMAHA SA-line of semi-hollowbody models : from the beginnings in the late 60`s to today's current models these guitars are simply top-notch professional grade tools for the discerning musician, really under-valued and a great bargain.
Then there is also GRECO, Orville + Höfner.
Check this out :
Yamaha SA-800 Semi-Hollow 80's Japan in Berlin - Mitte | eBay Kleinanzeigen ist jetzt Kleinanzeigen
Semi-Akustik E-Gitarre Yamaha SA 2200 (NP EUR 2300) in Baden-Wurttemberg - Gottmadingen | eBay Kleinanzeigen ist jetzt Kleinanzeigen
Yamaha SA-1000 Persimmon Red E-Gitarre semi-akustisch mit Hartschalenkoffer | eBay
YAMAHA SA 2200 - #7604037 - su Mercatino Musicale in Chitarre Semiacustiche
YAMAHA SA 1300 1980 MADE IN JAPAN NITRO FINISH - #7502359 - su Mercatino Musicale in Chitarre Semiacustiche
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/annonce-2023665
https://www.mercatinomusicale.com/mm...id7423923.html
https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/yamaha-a...in-1237653200/
https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzei...559436-74-3498
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Some other cool affordable options would be the Archtop Tribute line and the Seventy-Seven "Japan tune-up" line
Seventy seven Exrubato JT CR | Japanguitar-handmade
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So, is the AS50 well above the AM50 in terms of quality of construction and sound? I know it's a little bit bigger, so maybe that makes the sound a bit deeper (?)... Originally Posted by Archie
The one AS50 I found had some tiny holes drilled onto it, for an adaptor (GR1 Rolland??) which puzzles me because I never heard of such a modification. I can inquire more details about it, I haven't yet contacted the seller. He says that it doesn't affect the guitar in any way, but he would say that wouldn't he?
The AM50 seems to be in a pretty much pristine condition with its original case. And it's a year or so, younger than the AS50.
Both guitars are quite far from where I live, so that includes a long trip just to test them. Or buying from distance and hope for the best??
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Thanks for all these links, I appreciate it! Originally Posted by gitman
I'm not at all familiar with the Yamaha SA line, I know that their flagship SA2000 weighs a ton and is over my budget, but that's about it.
Is that SA800 their Artcore equivalent from the Ibanez line?
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Hey, that looks interesting. It's the same asking price as the other two smaller Ibanez I was talking about Originally Posted by gitman
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The weight of ALL these guitars is all over the map, there are real boat-anchors and - relatively- light ones. You MUST check this with every guitar you take into consideration. Originally Posted by Grigoris
BUT, the weight alone does not tell you much and a good strap will alleviate the few extra grams without a problem. A med/heavy guitar will have a bit more bass content
more sustain, note-bloom. For instance, a weight-relieved LesPaul (partly hollowed out) will have MUCH less bass "thump" than a normal solidbody version. You cannot change the general
character of the guitar by just swapping out pickups, there are so many more aspects involved....
The smaller Ibanez AM models are nice guitars but sound more like solidbodies - to my ears at least. Too small also but I'm a big fella ....
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I called the owner of the AS-50;
I would like your honest opinion, looking at these pictures he had sent me, below:
and I can't make out if there's a crack on the neck, whether it's the finish or not...
the holes are from when the owner was young during the synth years of the 1980s, he mounted the Roland GR-1 guitar synthesizer on it. Cruel act of barbarism
the frets look flat further down the neck to you? and what about this crack on the side of the guitar?
he said that the guitar plays well, that he gigged with it for nearly fourty years and he's only selling it to buy himself a GB archtop
he's asking for 950 Euros, comes with its original case.
Do you think it's worth the two hours drive to test it in person?
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Originally Posted by Grigoris
I called the owner of the AS-50;
I would like your honest opinion, looking at these pictures he had sent me, below:
and I can't make out if there's a crack on the neck, whether it's the finish or not...
the holes are from when the owner was young during the synth years of the 1980s, he mounted the Roland GR-1 guitar synthesizer on it. Cruel act of barbarism
the frets look flat further down the neck to you? and what about this crack on the side of the guitar?
he said that the guitar plays well, that he gigged with it for nearly fourty years and he's only selling it to buy himself a GB archtop
he's asking for 950 Euros, comes with its original case.
Do you think it's worth the two hours drive to test it in person?
No.
Never buy guitars that have been modded and or heavily used. Buy one that is in good original condition for a fair price. Do not over pay (900 euros is a joke imo) for something you will have trouble selling on.
Don't be in a rush. There will always be a better dal round the corner.
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Originally Posted by Grigoris
The Yamaha SA guitars are better imo. They are ridiculously well made and sound great plus they do not fetch as much money as the Ibanez.
With Ibanez AS50's starting to reach £1k I'd look elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by Archie
Thanks for taking the time to commenting; just so I'm better informed, what would you call a fair price for an AS50 - or any other Japanese made guitar from the 1980s (there's an AM50 on offer, also for 950 Euros) for that matter.
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