Gibson ES-175 Strap Button

**billkath** · 05-10-2010, 08:44 PM

Thought I'd start a new thread, rather than mess with the Gibson ES175 thread.

Now-the strap button on the Epi 175 is on the back of the guitar-an inch down from where the neck meets the body-dead centre in line with the neck. I presume the csrew is going directly through the bottom of the guitar and anchoring in the actual neck butt.

On the Gibson ES 175--it's on the side of the guitar. To me-a much better place for it. Now-I don't have a Gibby, so I can't tell you what it's anchoring into.

Anybody with a Gibby want to take a flashlight and have a peak through the F-hole to take a look? Is it anchoring into a small block of hardwood? Or just onto the wall of the guitar? you'll be looking past the pickup selector switch-behind it-viewing from more or less the bottom of the guitar.

I've looked inside the Epi. I notice that, attached to the point inside the top wall-where a Gibson has it's button- there's a small block of hardwood!!! To me-that hints that you can reposition the strap button. Deep joy if it can, as I wouldn't trust just securing into the laminated maple. Gibsons are solid wood sides, aren't they?

Could you also measure the position of the button-distance from top and bottom faces of the guitar to centre of the pin, and distance from edge of the neck heel to centre of the pin?
I'd be obliged!
I don't want to guess the position, as it's going to be very difficult to find exactly where the block lies, and it's very hard to judge distances viewing it as I am.

Thanks, Peeps!

Oh-forgot to tell you why? The Epi position means the guitar, when standing up playing makes the guitar face and neck point slightly downward, instead of slightly upward towards you, if you know what I mean.

**SamBooka** · 05-10-2010, 09:04 PM

I dont have a 175 but I do have a 165.
The button is on the heel of the neck but on the end cap.. not any place to interfere with the playing. I dont have a problem with it except a) I have seen other guitars that over time mangle the case and b) the guitar wants to roll foward a little if you take your hands completely off (which I never do).

I always assumed that the button was added aftermarket .. a quick look at ebay 165s and 175s would seem to confirm this (buttons are sometimes nonexistant or just about anywhere) BUT there was one similar to mine in the same locationl, same black chrome and small profile (almost like a schaller straplock button) so I think mine is original.

EDIT: Just noticed the "solid wood sides" comment. I dont think they are on 175s. Maple laminate. I would actually trust the laminate more than solid for a wood screw but not by much.

**kawa** · 05-10-2010, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by billkath

Thought I'd start a new thread, rather than mess with the Gibson ES175 thread.

Now-the strap button on the Epi 175 is on the back of the guitar-an inch down from where the neck meets the body-dead centre in line with the neck. I presume the csrew is going directly through the bottom of the guitar and anchoring in the actual neck butt.

On the Gibson ES 175--it's on the side of the guitar. To me-a much better place for it. Now-I don't have a Gibby, so I can't tell you what it's anchoring into.

Anybody with a Gibby want to take a flashlight and have a peak through the F-hole to take a look? Is it anchoring into a small block of hardwood? Or just onto the wall of the guitar? you'll be looking past the pickup selector switch-behind it-viewing from more or less the bottom of the guitar.

I've looked inside the Epi. I notice that, attached to the point inside the top wall-where a Gibson has it's button- there's a small block of hardwood!!! To me-that hints that you can reposition the strap button. Deep joy if it can, as I wouldn't trust just securing into the laminated maple. Gibsons are solid wood sides, aren't they?

Could you also measure the position of the button-distance from top and bottom faces of the guitar to centre of the pin, and distance from edge of the neck heel to centre of the pin?
I'd be obliged!
I don't want to guess the position, as it's going to be very difficult to find exactly where the block lies, and it's very hard to judge distances viewing it as I am.

Thanks, Peeps!

Oh-forgot to tell you why? The Epi position means the guitar, when standing up playing makes the guitar face and neck point slightly downward, instead of slightly upward towards you, if you know what I mean.

I chose the side position for standing playabilitys at last.
Place : 28mm from the top and 18mm from the heal.
Tools for pilot hole http://www.e-daikudogu.com/goods_41374.html
'67 Gibson ES-175DN
(Fill the old hole by putty)
Needs a hand made felt washer for protecting finish and keep the tension for loose.
In case of felt washer, screw is loosen by frictions of the strap.

**Squint** · 05-10-2010, 10:01 PM

Chances are that the small block of wood attached to the side, above the neck, is indeed there for a strap button.

Check with your local luthier to make sure, though. But i can't see any other reason for it being there...

**kawa** · 05-10-2010, 10:14 PM

Please watch 4:10

TommyD · 05-11-2010, 12:00 AM

My ES 165 did not come with a strap button, so I looked inside with a flashlight and screwed one in right next to the neck extension on the side of the guitar, leaving enough room next to the neck so I can slip the strap over the button. It screwed right into the big inside block that reinforces the neck-body connection. and the guitar hangs nice, with no tendency to roll out as it does with buttons placed into the bottom of the neck extension or the back of the body.
tommy/

**randyc** · 05-11-2010, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by TommyD

My ES 165 did not come with a strap button

That's right and I hesitated to mention this earlier because I'm STILL not completely sure of my facts.

With the exception of the Guild SF III, Gibson ES-135 and Gibson ES-330 (guitars that might be considered "sorta" mass-produced), my other archtops did not include an "upper" strap button.

cheers,
randyc

**cosmic gumbo** · 05-11-2010, 05:09 AM

Hmmm...the last time I visited the luthier he was showing me a new ES-137 he was working on. The strap button had come off, because it was not anchored into anything more than the side of the guitar, not sunk into anything solid inside. He said Gibson had installed it, and he was not impressed. He showed me an ES-175 with the same problem, but said a 175 doesn't come stock from the factory with any upper strap buttons. Check out the old school players, and they tied the strap at the headstock, acoustic style.

**kawa** · 05-11-2010, 05:21 AM

Strap Buttons
My Trial : #7 is the best(traditional way), but not long life.
I chose the same as Les Paul Position and as well as close to the top and the heal.

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 05:58 AM

Many Thanks, Kawa-San.
That's a lovely tool-the nicest bradawl I've ever seen. Thank you for the measurements as well. Arigato.

Originally Posted by kawa

I chose the side position for standing playabilitys at last.
Place : 28mm from the top and 18mm from the heal.
Tools for pilot hole ???????? ??? ???? ???????(\483)
'67 Gibson ES-175DN
(Fill the old hole by putty)

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Squint

Chances are that the small block of wood attached to the side, above the neck, is indeed there for a strap button.

Check with your local luthier to make sure, though. But i can't see any other reason for it being there...

Thanks, Squint-Will do!!

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by kawa

Please watch 4:10

Beautiful playing, and a beautiful guitar. that shows exactly the position of the strap button. Arigato, Kawa-san.

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Hmmm...the last time I visited the luthier he was showing me a new ES-137 he was working on. The strap button had come off, because it was not anchored into anything more than the side of the guitar, not sunk into anything solid inside. He said Gibson had installed it, and he was not impressed. He showed me an ES-175 with the same problem, but said a 175 doesn't come stock from the factory with any upper strap buttons. Check out the old school players, and they tied the strap at the headstock, acoustic style.

Yep-Hugely important, CG-the anchoring. Hard to fathom why a guitar company couldn't be bothered doing it correctly.

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by randyc

That's right and I hesitated to mention this earlier because I'm STILL not completely sure of my facts.

With the exception of the Guild SF III, Gibson ES-135 and Gibson ES-330 (guitars that might be considered "sorta" mass-produced), my other archtops did not include an "upper" strap button.

cheers,
randyc

Neither did my acoustics, Randy. I hate having the strap on the headstock, though- it has always seemed awkward to me.

**kawa** · 05-11-2010, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by billkath

Beautiful playing, and a beautiful guitar. that shows exactly the position of the strap button. Arigato, Kawa-san.

Doitashimashite, Bill san.
See you.

TommyD · 05-11-2010, 10:41 AM

The tailpiece "button" fell out of my old ES 125 one day. I discovered that it may be made out of ivory, or else some sort of celluloid that has 'grain'. And it's tapered and a little over an inch long - a push-fit into the hole. Well, when I shoved it back in, it didn't want to be tight, so, because I always keep a roll of toilet paper nearby to blow my nose, etc, (No, the "etc" does not include that!) I wrapped a fragment of TP around the pin and re-seated it. It seemed to hold well, and is still there with a tiny bit of toilet paper showing at one side - some 20 years later.
So, if anybody needs help, just let me know and I'll mail you a few sheets.
Tommy/

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 10:49 AM

**kawa** · 05-11-2010, 07:09 PM

Please watch at 6:10

**lpdeluxe** · 05-11-2010, 07:58 PM

My late and unlamented Chet Atkins Country Gent got one thing right: the strap button was at the tip of the upper bass bout, rather like a solid body guitar (Gretsch did even better than that: the "button" was a screw-on cap that you undid, put the strap over the threaded shaft, and then screwed the cap back on). Like billkath, it annoys me that my 335 doesn't "hang" properly; but since I play sitting down, it's not a real problem. Added to the difficulty is that a Schaller strap-lock protrudes into one's abdomen (YMMV, depending on the exact shape of your thorax).

I've never understood why Gibson insists on this dysfunctional position.

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by kawa

Please watch at 6:10

Well found! My problem with it is-Not only does that look awful, but you and I know that one little distraction-like a pretty lady walks in, and you turn to your bandmates, and that strap slips off the face of the guitar, completely throwing your playing off and making the guitarist look like an idiot? No-that man is a busker, I think! That's tube station guitar-strapping, right there. Stability is the key.

**kawa** · 05-11-2010, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by billkath

Well found! My problem with it is-Not only does that look awful, but you and I know that one little distraction-like a pretty lady walks in, and you turn to your bandmates, and that strap slips off the face of the guitar, completely throwing your playing off and making the guitarist look like an idiot? No-that man is a busker, I think! That's tube station guitar-strapping, right there. Stability is the key.

Yes, just one of the way for tilting the guitar.
In normaly, enough the elbow's control and "Les paul Position"
Jim and Kenny using this place.

**SamBooka** · 05-11-2010, 09:27 PM

just an update.. I checked my 165 .. I am pretty certain there is no reinforcement in the Les-Paul-esque location for a strap button.

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by kawa

Yes, just one of the way for tilting the guitar.
In normaly, enough the elbow's control and "Les paul Position"
Jim and Kenny using this place.

Me too. A little bit of elbow pressure does wonders.

**kawa** · 05-11-2010, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by billkath

Me too. A little bit of elbow pressure does wonders.

Thank you Bill for your perfectly undestanding.
See you.

**billkath** · 05-11-2010, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

just an update.. I checked my 165 .. I am pretty certain there is no reinforcement in the Les-Paul-esque location for a strap button.

Isn't that strange?
Know what I can't understand? Why put the strap button on the back of this guitar, through a lovely finished back, when the side on this Epi is already reinforced to take the button in the Gibson position? Dipsticks. Maybe it's a licensing thing.
Now i'm going to have to do a proper repair on the back to fix the hole-that'd drive me nuts, knowing i'd done a half-assed job on it. Ah, well!!!
Luckily-where the strap button was is at the black end of the sunburst--much easier to hide.

Everybody-thanks for your time and your help.