What's the deal with not changing strings?

[blille]

Sound advice and I would generally agree. However, metal does fatigue and will fail. Work hardening. I had a real problem with breakage at the saddle with strats. "Get graph-tech bridge pieces". I took that advice and nothing changed. And I hated the ping-y sound of those saddles. I switched to ES guitars in 2015 and had a lot less breakage issues but with heavy string bending they still can still be counted on to give way after 3 or 4 hours of hard gigging. Albert King and Stevie bends are hard on strings. Strangely the cheap-o juststrings.com generic plain gauges have generally outlasted ernie balls and d'addarios during the times when I didn't change them (long rehearsals but no gigs during covid).

I wouldn’t put EB and D’Addarios in the same group. IME EB have been the worst strings I’ve used. I used them in the 90s when some of my hero’s somehow advertised them. I haven’t had any breakage issues with D’Addarios in at least 15 years or so. I bought a guitar that came with EBs earlier this year and one string broke as I was setting it up

[Woodstove]

Nice job! I enjoyed your singing voice.

Thank you.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Sound advice and I would generally agree. However, metal does fatigue and will fail. Work hardening.

True enough. But the effect of work hardening on the string varies with circumstances. The critical factor from hardness is the accompanying increase in brittleness, and that’s why the metal fractures. Harder metal parts like grade 8 hardware are rendered less brittle by heat treatment. Harder but more ductile / less brittle alloys are used in AN hardware. Threads are rolled instead of cut on high grade bolts to reduce surface flaws that become stress risers and result in breakage. A tiny ding in a $5 bolt has caused many a NASCAR and F1 car to crash - this is why the best bolts come with plastic sleeves over the threads.

If the string is tensed over a sharp edge rather than a smooth one, the energy and motion that cause work hardening are both concentrated in a smaller contact area. This causes a more concentrated zone of embrittlement that develops faster and will result in breakage sooner. Even a perfect string on perfect nut and bridge will work harden a bit over time from the vibration of playing. But lacking the concentration of stress and energy caused by a burr etc, that change is uniform along the string. So no area becomes brittle enough to break and the string remains intact until replacement. FWIW, I suspect that work hardening is a major factor in long term degradation of string tone.

The other problem caused by being vibrated against a fine, sharp edge is surface damage. As described above, even a microscopic craze line or crushed spot becomes a stress riser. The stress on the metal is concentrated at the edges, and it spreads to become a fracture over time. The good news is that losing a string to this on an expensive guitar won’t destroy the guitar. Such failures in parts that don’t cost any more than a string have led to destruction of many fine and very expensive cars, machines, etc.

[QAman]

True enough. But the effect of work hardening on the string varies with circumstances. The critical factor from hardness is the accompanying increase in brittleness, and that’s why the metal fractures. Harder metal parts like grade 8 hardware are rendered less brittle by heat treatment. Harder but more ductile / less brittle alloys are used in AN hardware. Threads are rolled instead of cut on high grade bolts to reduce surface flaws that become stress risers and result in breakage. A tiny ding in a $5 bolt has caused many a NASCAR and F1 car to crash - this is why the best bolts come with plastic sleeves over the threads.

If the string is tensed over a sharp edge rather than a smooth one, the energy and motion that cause work hardening are both concentrated in a smaller contact area. This causes a more concentrated zone of embrittlement that develops faster and will result in breakage sooner. Even a perfect string on perfect nut and bridge will work harden a bit over time from the vibration of playing. But lacking the concentration of stress and energy caused by a burr etc, that change is uniform along the string. So no area becomes brittle enough to break and the string remains intact until replacement. FWIW, I suspect that work hardening is a major factor in long term degradation of string tone.

The other problem caused by being vibrated against a fine, sharp edge is surface damage. As described above, even a microscopic craze line or crushed spot becomes a stress riser. The stress on the metal is concentrated at the edges, and it spreads to become a fracture over time. The good news is that losing a string to this on an expensive guitar won’t destroy the guitar. Such failures in parts that don’t cost any more than a string have led to destruction of many fine and very expensive cars, machines, etc.

Very well said. Being in the Aerospace manufacturing business, with a discipline in manufacturing engineering and quality assurance ( QAman) - I'm always impressed with your profound knowledge base......quite impressive.

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[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Very well said. Being in the Aerospace manufacturing business, with a discipline in manufacturing engineering and quality assurance ( QAman) - I'm always impressed with your profound knowledge base......quite impressive.

Thanks so very much! I spent the last 50 years defining, measuring, and improving quality in healthcare outcomes at two of the largest & best known academic systems in the US. I’m GE trained in 6 Sigma and have been a 6sig master black belt for about 15 years. For those who don’t know 6 Sigma, it’s a data driven process design and improvement system, not a martial art.

[QAman]

Thanks so very much! I spent the last 50 years defining, measuring, and improving quality in healthcare outcomes at two of the largest & best known academic systems in the US. I’m GE trained in 6 Sigma and have been a 6sig master black belt for about 15 years. For those who don’t know 6 Sigma, it’s a data driven process design and improvement system, not a martial art.

Our backgrounds are similar. I've implemented six sigma and Deming principles throughout my business beginning in the 90's , and currently hold 17 years of Platiunum awards from Northrop Grumman, and 15 years of UTC Gold/ Elite Awards for quality excellence and benchmark operational controls.

I've been a Deming student since the 90's and use SPC charts in every meaninging key process parameter of our manufacturing process, and also incorporated these control techniques throughout our financial system.

Apologize for diverting off the thread- just wanted to recognize nevershould's impressive knowledge base.

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[Woodstove]

[QUOTE=QAman;1282968]
Apologize for diverting off the thread- just wanted to recognize nevershould's impressive knowledge base.

No worries, very cool to read about it. We can bond over other things than jazz guitar!
I am curious though....did you like my song?

[QAman]

[QUOTE=Woodstove;1282975]

Apologize for diverting off the thread- just wanted to recognize nevershould's impressive knowledge base.

No worries, very cool to read about it. We can bond over other things than jazz guitar!
I am curious though....did you like my song?

Woodstove.
I thoroughly enjoyed your composition " Our Vineyard Home". The blend of your voice and comping was excellent. It was one of those composition
that I wish lasted a bit longer- especially at the end. The Trenier sounded awesome - I'm a big fan of Bryants guitars. Thanks for sharing.

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[Woodstove]

[QUOTE=QAman;1282978][QUOTE=Woodstove;1282975]Woodstove.
I thoroughly enjoyed your composition " Our Vineyard Home". The blend of your voice and comping was excellent. It was one of those composition
that I wish lasted a bit longer- especially at the end. The Trenier sounded awesome - I'm a big fan of Bryants guitars. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for listening and the kind words QAman. If it meets your quality standards I guess I'm on the right path I suspect you are saying more than you were sorry to hear it end....I do plan to expand it at least with guitar or piano soloing. And to go all the way back to the thread, I think the 13 Bebops fit nicely on her.

[sicourtjon]

I play a Prestige NY Jazz. I purchased the guitar in 2008 from Canada and it was shipped to the U.K.
It still has the same set of D’Addario 10’s on it. I play this guitar once to twice a week.
After playing I always wipe the strings with a lint free cloth and a clean watchmaker’s brush.
Still sounds great to me.

In Tommy Tedesco’s book he mentions a bass guitar he used on sessions. The strings on it were 15 years old.

[rpjazzguitar]

I play a Prestige NY Jazz. I purchased the guitar in 2008 from Canada and it was shipped to the U.K.
It still has the same set of D’Addario 10’s on it. I play this guitar once to twice a week.
After playing I always wipe the strings with a lint free cloth and a clean watchmaker’s brush.
Still sounds great to me.

In Tommy Tedesco’s book he mentions a bass guitar he used on sessions. The strings on it were 15 years old.

I change the high E more than the others. I change it when it won't intonate properly. For the rest, I suspect it's mood dependent.

When you remove an old string, take a moment and run your finger over its length. You'll feel kinks where the string encountered the frets. I would presume that higher frets and more downward pressure would accelerate this process. It feels as if it wouldn't sound good. Of course, I have no idea how audible this problem may be or how quickly the kinks develop. But, I'd imagine, without proof, that an old kinked E string, played open, might not sound the same as a brand new one, played open, before it ever came in contact with a fret.

[ragman1]

I tend to let my strings get old these days because I'm using an acoustic guitar for jazz tunes. New steel strings are too bright and clangy so I let them dull down for best effect. Surprisingly they stay in tune which is great.

I've been meaning to try flatwounds to see what happens but I haven't got round to it yet.

[mr. beaumont]

I tend to let my strings get old these days because I'm using an acoustic guitar for jazz tunes. New steel strings are too bright and clangy so I let them dull down for best effect. Surprisingly they stay in tune which is great.

I've been meaning to try flatwounds to see what happens but I haven't got round to it yet.

I've tried flatwounds on a flattop a few times, they never stay on long...it gets too "honky" or something.

I've settled on Monels for my flattop and love the sound.

As for flatwounds on my other guitars, they last forever, and sound best after a month or so, and then sound like that for a long time...so they stay on a looooong time.

[ragman1]

I've tried flatwounds on a flattop a few times, they never stay on long...it gets too "honky" or something.

I've settled on Monels for my flattop and love the sound.

As for flatwounds on my other guitars, they last forever, and sound best after a month or so, and then sound like that for a long time...so they stay on a looooong time.

Cheers, Jeff. I think deep down I knew flatwounds probably wouldn't work hence the persistent hesitation. But I've just checked out Monels and they look interesting. Time to give them a try. Thanks for that.

[mr. beaumont]

Cheers, Jeff. I think deep down I knew flatwounds probably wouldn't work hence the persistent hesitation. But I've just checked out Monels and they look interesting. Time to give them a try. Thanks for that.

Have to try and see what you think. To me, they lack some of the zing and sparkle that a lot of folks love about bronze strings, but I don't

Plus they're not particularly expensive, and they'll work with a pickup, so it's win-win.

[ragman1]

I've just ordered them from Amazon, delivery tomorrow. Cost about £17 incl p&p. That's about $21.

For curiosity, how much were yours over there?

[mr. beaumont]

I've just ordered them from Amazon, delivery tomorrow. Cost about £17 incl p&p. That's about $21.

For curiosity, how much were yours over there?

Oh wow, I get them in 3 packs for $22 USD.

[deacon Mark]

I have a set of Thomastik flatwounds Swings 12-50. The lightest strings I have ever used and normally only use flatwounds on this guitar not the carved top acoustic guitars. I changed these about a year ago and they intonate and play great. I play the guitar a lot but not huge amounts like 2-3 hours every day, but frankly I can see the strings intonating and sounding fine for years possible.

[ragman1]

Oh wow, I get them in 3 packs for $22 USD.

Oh! It doesn't matter, they'll probably stay on for a considerable period. I'm glad you get yours cheaper!

[ThatRhythmMan]

I've just ordered them from Amazon, delivery tomorrow. Cost about £17 incl p&p. That's about $21.

For curiosity, how much were yours over there?

I don’t like the way Martin Retros sound for the first few days, but after that, I like them quite a lot. If it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to hear your experience.


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[omphalopsychos]

Plus they're not particularly expensive, and they'll work with a pickup, so it's win-win.

I don't think Monels are significantly better with a pickup than 80/20 bronze. IMO the size of the inner core of the strings, which is made of steel, makes more of a difference than bronze vs monel. In fact, my go to brand of acoustic strings is Philippe Bosset (endorsed by Rob MacKillop!) not just because they wound wonderful acoustically but also because they balance well with a pickup. In fact they balance better than the Monel strings that I've also tried.

[ragman1]

I don’t like the way Martin Retros sound for the first few days, but after that, I like them quite a lot. If it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to hear your experience.

OK, I won't judge them too soon. Watch this space

[Woody Sound]

Back in the day of 4-hr sweaty commercial gigs, I changed my 10 gauges for every job. I think they were about $3/pack. But I think my body chemistry has changed. I just finished 2 weeks of daily rehearsals for the Footloose musical, with the same set of D’A 10’s and they’re fine. Lots of rocking out and bending. But I will probably put on a new set for the shows for that bright sustain.

[ragman1]

Here we go. There'll be a gap while I get it together. I know you can't wait...

Attachment 109461

[Bluedawg]

My string changes depend on the guitar and the music I'm playing on it ... and if I'm playing the guitar regularly

I want new and sparkly on my solid bodies for rock and jazz

For jazz the older the strings the better for me ... until they can't hold their tuning or intonation anymore


But since I've been gigging almost exclusively on bass the last several years, I haven't changed sets on any of my guitars in a long time.

The humidity where I'm at can get down under 10% so rusty strings aren't a problem even with my humidifier running in my guitar room most of the year.

I think I have some strings that have been on my guitars over 20 years and most of them still sound good.