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Hi, long time bassist here recently getting into jazz guitar.
I got the Roland Blues Cube Artist as my first guitar amp hoping to get a loud clean sound and also be able to explore overdrive/distortion sounds but I can’t seem to get a completely clean sound except at whisper quiet volumes. There seems to always be a little fuzziness on chords, even at bedroom volumes. I got the Ultimate Blues and Sparkle Clean tone capsules to try to get more clean headroom but I hear the same distortion.
I’m trying to figure out if there is something wrong with my amp that can be fixed or if this is just the way the amp is designed. Is anyone else here using this amp for clean jazz tones? Does it stay clean on chords when loud enough to play with a jazz drummer? I really like the voicing of this amp, especially with the Ultimate Blues tone capsule, but I don’t think I would want to use it for jazz unless I can get it cleaner.
Here’s a recording of what I’m hearing. This was recorded with the Sparkle Clean tone capsule, power and master volume on max, clean channel on volume on 3, plugged in to the high input and using a Shure SM57.
I find that the distortion is most noticeable in the middle of the guitar range, for example A-D-G-B at the 12th fret, and it’s more noticeable with the tone rolled off (though I modified my tone control to be not as dark and muddy as a typical tone control).
To try to figure out where the distortion is coming from I hooked the RBCA head up to a bass cab and a bass head up to the RBCA speaker. It’s definitely the RBCA head. I also only hear the distortion in the speaker, not the line out or headphone out.Last edited by chrisjazzebass; 05-30-2023 at 11:31 AM.
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05-30-2023 02:41 AM
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Your soundcloud link doesn't work.
I have a BCA with the Blues Cube Tone Capsule... I really would like to hear that sound clip so I can hear what you're talking about. I have no problem getting a clean tone with it, even at band practice, where I'm on the 15W setting and the clean channel volume is turned up to about 6.
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Has the owner's manual been helpful in trying to zero in on the sound you want? Here's a couple of points I found interesting:
Input: "Normally you’ll connect to the HIGH input. If your guitar has an especially high output and distorts easily, connect it to the LOW input."
Dual Tone button: "Mixes the CLEAN channel and the CRUNCH channel."
Clean channel volume: "Adjusts the volume of the clean channel. If BOOST is off, settings of 0–6 will provide undistorted clean sound, and settings of 6–12 provide a light crunch sound with some power-amp distortion."
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Ok, the Soundcloud link is fixed. I tried to link to a post a private track and it kept turning it into a broken embedded player so I made it public.
I'm definitely using just the clean channel, not dual tone, and the low input produces the same sound once I turn up the gain to match the volume I had before.
I just realized that the distortion on the recording is pretty subtle, so make sure you turn it up loud enough to hear it.
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I'm not sure I hear what you are talking about in that sound clip. If pressed, MAYBE I hear a TINY bit of something a LITTLE fuzzy on the top end? But out of hand, that clip does not sound like an amp distorting to me.
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That fuzziness is what I'm talking about. It doesn't sound like typical tube amp overdrive. It is pretty subtle on the recording and it seems like I can hear it more in the room. Maybe I'll try recording it again with a different mic or mic position.
I have a few other amps now and I don't hear that with any other amp.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. The very slight fuzziness I hear sounds very much like a tube amp to me, and I'm guessing the Roland is designed to make that sound exactly. I hear that slight drive in so many of my favorite players, all playing tube amps. It sounds like maybe you want absolutely dead clean, like plugging into a recording console. If the Sparkle Clean tone capsule doesn't get you there, then I submit you simply don't like Roland's idea of what a tube amp is supposed to sound like... at least not for jazz.
But to me, that clip has the hallmarks of a 5E3 jazz tone, with regards to the very slight distortion. I dig it. I would dig it less if it WASN'T there. Nothing worse than a sterile clean tone to me.
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I think you're probably right. I don't have much experience with tube amps and I guess the RBCA didn't sound like what I thought tube amp overdrive was supposed to sound like. I thought it would stay clean until I got close to max volume, then start breaking up and get more and more distorted but not much louder. I recently got a Tone Master Twin Reverb and this is basically what it sounds like (on the low power settings). Even on the 5W setting I have to get pretty loud to hear any breakup and I only hear it briefly until the notes decay a bit. I tried a few tube amps in music stores like the Twin Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, Princeton Reverb and those all seem to be like this but I guess other tube amps start distorting long before they get close to max volume?
Regarding completely clean vs. slight overdrive, I think I want to explore both but right now I find myself liking the completely clean sound more. I like what I'm getting from the TMTR. I also got a DV Mark Jazz 12 and I like that quite a bit too.
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Fender musical instrument tube amps are rated for power at which harmonic distortion reaches 5% with the volume and tones all full up... which is a very loud and clean sound. I play my Fender tube amps in performance a "Jazz" volume and they are absolutely dead clean.
The sound in your example is not clean, it has a lot of inter-modulation distortion which is not pleasant; I'm guessing they're modeling symmetric hard clipping (like the Fulltone ODC drive hard clipping) easy to hear even at low levels because it fizzes up Jazz chords . The manufacturer hints at this:
"The Blues Cube Artist has two independent channels—one voiced for cleaner tones..."
"The Clean channel’s single volume control dials in natural tube fullness and bite as the volume is cranked..."
Cleaner is not clean, and bite is the signature sound of symmetric hard clipping (odd order higher harmonics).
You might try recording from the line out to compare (for us to compare the existing example to a line out example).
Another thing to verify is the variable power - if it were set to 1/2 watt it would not be clean at low level.
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I would think the Twin would definitely be more of what you want to hear: it is Fender's "clean machine".
Originally Posted by chrisjazzebass
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Interesting, I had a similar issue with the BCA, with or without the various tone capsules. Just sounded a little muddled to my ears. Ended up selling the whole kit ‘n’ kaboodle and getting me a Henriksen Blu Six. The friend I sold the BCA to is loving it, so to each their own amps, I suppose.
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Great advice, the variable power was one of the main reasons that I got the BCA. Originally Posted by pauln
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I owned a BC Hot for a couple years, until it developed an annoying distortion issue, most notable when playing cleanish, that couldn't be easily, or cost-effectively, serviced by a local amp tech. My issue sounded much different from yours. In fact, I don't think I'd call yours an issue. I too recall how limited I could turn up the volume (gain), not much past 3-3.5, before some break-up / fuzziness could be coaxed out. I suspect what you're hearing is a deliberate attempt at modeling that vintage tweed tone, which I quite liked.
There are definitely amps out there that can do "clean clean" jazz.
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I have one of these amps. Have a Sparkly Clean tone capsule in it. No problem getting a clean sound with a variety of different guitars.
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Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "Sparkly Clean tone capsule"? Thanks in advance. Originally Posted by Spook410
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If you like the sound of a tweed Fender amp, that would be the target of the original Roland Blues Artist amp sound. It's a little dull for my taste. When I went to purchase one of their overpriced and gimmicky 'tone capsules' the sparkle version is what was available. Supposed to emulate a British KT66 tube sound. And though I tend to favor a Fender blackface tone, it seems to work pretty well for the clean jazz tones I prefer. In the world of tone, if it sounds good, it is good.
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Yes: stock it is designed to sound like a tweed Bassman, on both channels. Originally Posted by Spook410
The Ultimate Blues tone capsule is a Super Reverb on the clean channel and a Marshall Plexi on the dirty channel.
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The OP's sound file sounds much as I would expect it to - a digital representation of a tube amp. Subtle distortion of a clean tube amps is emulated and sounds a bit off. For the record, it doesn't sound bad to me at all. But it's like a food chemist combining additives to simulate the flavour of maple or bacon - it's never quite there.
But Roland did achieve something, they sold you an amp worth $1,130 and 2 plastic bubbles filled with $50 of parts for $450.
I don't mean to be harsh but I used to be a big Roland fan with the old black with metal grill Cube series - cheap reliable good sounding amps.
I think these tone capsules are a cynical cash grabs. These settings should be built in on an amp costing $1,130.
Try Fender. I really liked the cleans on my Mustang IIIv2 and the Tonemasters are apparently very good.
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Or try the Boss Katana amps. Their Clean amp type is great, and the built-in effects are a bonus. An entire amp can be had for not much more than one of those Tone Capsules.
Or if you have a Marshall amp sitting around, the clean channel on those can give surprisingly good jazz tone.
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I tried an Katana MkII extensively about a month ago. Couldn't get a good tone out of it- sounded like a can of angry bees. The Roland Blues Cube Artist was MUCH more realistic-sounding. Horses for courses. (And I WANTED to like the katana- I was looking for a small, lightweight backup for my Roland, and a friend was selling it cheap. But even cheap, it didn't sound or feel good enough to buy.)
Roland got it "so right" with the newer Blues Cubes that I have no problem leaving my beloved tube amps at home. And being a Swart AST and Bad Cat Hot Cat, they are big shoes to fill. The Roland sounds and feels and reacts very much like my tube amps. The Katana felt like I plugged into a plugin.
I'd like to try one of the Fender Tonemasters, if they ever made a tweed or blonde/brown (circuits) model.
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What guitars were you using with it, and in what styles? Originally Posted by ruger9
I ask because I’ve had great success with my archtop doing jazz tones on Katana, and not great success with a single-coil Stratocaster doing rock tones. Fortunately I purchased it specifically to accompany my jazzbox.
That said, I do want to rock on it too. Would love to find a reason to sell off a couple amps.
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We are still a very long way from the day tube amp manufacturers begin advertising
that their tube amps sound just as good as their competitors' digital modeling amps.
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I wasn't going for jazz tones, but I was going for clean, semi-clean, and rock dirt tones. Using a tele and a PRS 2-humbucker. I didn't like it for rock or blues at all. Not even enough to buy it cheap as a backup amp. I know alot of people love the Katanas, but they don't sound or feel like amps to me. They sound and feel like digital simulations. The Roland, which is also digital, sounds and feels very similar to my tube amps. I think Roland really cracked the code before anyone. I hear nothing but raves about the Fender Tonemasters, I'd be willing to try those, but now that I tried a Katana, I won't be trying another one. Originally Posted by coyote-1
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I spent some real time this evening with it. Got what I want on three channels so far.
Will post about it in the Katana thread.
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