Gibson L-5 CES Pickup Observations

[omphalopsychos]

I tried out a bunch of different pickups in my L5 Wes Montgomery over the past couple of months. I have no problem with the 57 classic in there, but I was just curious since people seem to rave about some of these.

- Gabojo 2000 (dynasonic in humbucker form factor)
- Throbak SLE 101
- Custombucker


The first of these was out of plain curiosity. I have this Gabojo from a while ago. I really loved it in a guitar I sold, and was just curious about how it sounded in an L5. The other two pickups are just great deals I found on reverb and decided to try them out and resell them if they didn't work out for me.

With all three pickups, I had a similar observation compared to the 57 classic. They were MUCH brighter and clearer and less compressed. You know, in most of my guitars I would consider that a good thing, but I appreciate the recipe of the modern L5. The top is a thick spruce plate; not particularly resonant. Even with a wooden saddle, these guitars sound nothing like an acoustic archtop. Acoustically they're quiet and somewhat bright. But somehow the combination of that acoustic design and the more compressed, warmer 57 classic produces a really beautiful fat plugged in tone. The other pickups I tried sounded ok at quiet volumes, but when I played them louder (including with a band) I noticed a harshness that was hard to control. In a solidbody or semihollow, I might really appreciate this touch sensitivity, but with the L5 into a clean amp, the treble was to shrill and the transients too spiky.

Unfortunately I did not record any clips for this because it was over a long period of time and harder to control for all the variables. But I wanted to share this experience. I don't think a lot of people get an L5 and swap the pickups, but I had to satisfy my curiosity. There you have it. That 57 classic is special. It might be muddy or indistinct in other guitars, but you can't argue with the big fat round single notes it produces.

I have yet to ever play that 12 pole kent armstrong people seem to like. I just can't get over the looks. Anyway, I think for now I'm done trying out pickups.

[6v6ster]

I appreciate you sharing your observations.
Maybe it depends on the kind of jazz sound you’re going for. Myself, I like a brighter sound, not the muted sound that seems popular now. Kenny Burrell, Johnny smith and Hank garland are my ideas of great tone, so a PAF or anything on the brighter, clearer side like that is right up my alley.

But having said that, I think you’re right, the 57 classic ina modern l5 is a great recipe for a certain thing.

[omphalopsychos]

If you know anything about me you know I’m into a bright sound. Fat, but clear and defined. In fact I mostly dislike humbuckers. My favorite pickups are dearmond floating pickups which have warmth while retaining clarity. Of modern pickup winders, TK smith is at the top of the pack, producing similar warmth and clarity. So let me set my framing as probably closer to yours than you might expect. I won’t diss any musicians and I respect everyone’s tastes but I will say that the dark humbucker/ polytone sound that many equivocate with jazz tone is not what I’m after. My ideal humbucker tone is fat, but also clear and snappy.

So maybe that context helps. In the context of a clear but fat pickup sound, I think the 57 classic is the winner. The others didn’t get me closer to a Johnny smith tone or anything like that; they all overshot that target by a mile. This is subjective of course, but I just wanted to provide that additional clarification on where I’m coming from. My favorite players (in terms of at least tone) are Oscar Moore, bill jennings, Anthony Wilson, Chris flory, Ed cherry. All of these guys have what most people would agree to be pretty bright (but fat) tones.

[Amberville]

The price they charge for an L5, I would hope Gibson put the right pickups in there.

I seem to recall talk of them changing over to poly coated wire in the mid 2000's, which upset the purists somewhat.

As far as brightness goes, I certainly wouldn't want anything brighter in my modern L5.

[ThatRhythmMan]

I had an L-5 CES that came with Lindy Fralin Pure PAFs installed and the original 57 Classics in the case. This was many years ago, so I don’t remember the details, but I remember not being able to get a tone I was happy with while the Fralins were in it. After swapping it back to the originals, everything fell into place. That guitar now belongs to one of the forum members.

I’ve also played another L-5 CES that had Lollar Imperials in it that I remembered liking ver much.

Different beast, but I’ve had great success with Throbak SLE-101 pickups in vintage ES-175s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jimmy Mack]

My '81 L5 CES had the Gibson Shaw humbuckers in it. I think those p/ups are in demand with Les Paul players.
But in my L5, there was just an annoying mid range hump that I could not dial out without affecting the hi's and lo's, and it seemed to really be pronounced on the 4 the string, higher on the neck. P/up adjustment didn't remedy this.

When I installed Seth Lover p/ups, the problem disappeared, and the guitar just became lovelier all around. Also, there is now much more life to the tone, no matter how I set the dials. New 500K pots also helped.

This change was clear to my ears, as I tested several pickups wired directly without pots in the circuit, before installing the 500K pots.

Pickups tested: stock Shaw h/bers, Seymour Duncan '59, Gibson '57 Classic+, and Seth Lovers.

[Spook410]

I might not have gotten this until owning a couple of L5's. A CES and a Studio. Unplugged they don't sound much like an acoustic archtop. Kind of subdued and quiet. But plugged in they do this fat electric archtop thing. And just warm. Even without much dialing in.

I use and like the Armstrong 12 pole pickups in my Benedetto pattern guitars. Very lively and acoustic and it's a good match. It's more accurate than a 57 HB. Not really in a high fidelity sort of way and certainly not as much as an acoustic guitar pickup but the 12 pole has a broader frequency response and greater clarity. It's a good match for an acoustic sort of archtop.

I'm looking forward to trying the Armstrong hand wound single coil in a good sounding hand carved with a mahogany back sitting on my bench right now. As for the L5's, not really tempted to try anything other than the humbuckers they came with.

[Stringswinger]

I have played L-5's with PAF's and T-Tops and both of those pickups sound great in an L-5 CES. I had an ES-175 that had Shaw Pickups and it sounded great. My L-5 WESMO sounds great with it's 57 Classic. My L-5 CES came to me with a set of handwound Kent Armstrong 12 pole PAF's installed and the original 57 Classics in the case. Every now and then I think about putting the 57 Classics back in, but then I play it with the KA pickups and think "this guitar sounds damn good. If it ain't broke. don't fix it". So those 57 classics remain in the case. But perhaps one day......

For years, I was not satisfied with the tone from my Super 400 CES and one day decided to sell it. I decided to do a deep cleaning of the guitar prior to the sale and pulled the pups. To my surprise, i found that the neck pickup had been replaced with a Benedetto Pickup (the original owner failed to disclose that). I found a NOS 57 classic from 96 (my Super 400 CES is a 97) and installed it and have loved the guitar ever since. 57 Classics rule in a Gibson archtop.

[ThatRhythmMan]

I have played L-5's with PAF's and T-Tops and both of those pickups sound great in an L-5 CES. I had an ES-175 that had Shaw Pickups and it sounded great. My L-5 WESMO sounds great with it's 57 Classic. My L-5 CES came to me with a set of handwound Kent Armstrong 12 pole PAF's installed and the original 57 Classics in the case. Every now and then I think about putting the 57 Classics back in, but then I play it with the KA pickups and think "this guitar sounds damn good. If it ain't broke. don't fix it". So those 57 classics remain in the case. But perhaps one day......

For years, I was not satisfied with the tone from my Super 400 CES and one day decided to sell it. I decided to do a deep cleaning of the guitar prior to the sale and pulled the pups. To my surprise, i found that the neck pickup had been replaced with a Benedetto Pickup (the original owner failed to disclose that). I found a NOS 57 classic from 96 (my Super 400 CES is a 97) and installed it and have loved the guitar ever since. 57 Classics rule in a Gibson archtop.

Early T-tops are one of my favorite pickups in archtops. The ex-Herb Ellis ES-175 has an early pat# in it, obviously that one sounds great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NSJ]

It’s interesting to me how modern versions of this guitar sound radically different than even my 62 L5C. I can play with it unamped. It’s not a spectacular acoustic sound, but it’s there. And it has a nice sustain, compared to most archtops with have that midrange punch that instantly dies when plucked off the vine. The same thing with early 50’s 175s. (Like the one I bought from you, that I still have). You can practice them them acoustically, even though they are clearly at their best amplified.

There are great acoustic archtops. There are great electric archops. Then there is the third category of great electric archtops that sound passable and ok, umamped.

[John A.]

My reaction to every L-5 I've ever tried (all were new ones in shops, so I assume stock) was "damn, this thing sounds great!". Never once "hmm, maybe it would be better with different pickups." I consider myself lucky (financially, anyway) that I don't like playing guitars that are that big.

[deacon Mark]

I have played L-5's with PAF's and T-Tops and both of those pickups sound great in an L-5 CES. I had an ES-175 that had Shaw Pickups and it sounded great. My L-5 WESMO sounds great with it's 57 Classic. My L-5 CES came to me with a set of handwound Kent Armstrong 12 pole PAF's installed and the original 57 Classics in the case. Every now and then I think about putting the 57 Classics back in, but then I play it with the KA pickups and think "this guitar sounds damn good. If it ain't broke. don't fix it". So those 57 classics remain in the case. But perhaps one day......

For years, I was not satisfied with the tone from my Super 400 CES and one day decided to sell it. I decided to do a deep cleaning of the guitar prior to the sale and pulled the pups. To my surprise, i found that the neck pickup had been replaced with a Benedetto Pickup (the original owner failed to disclose that). I found a NOS 57 classic from 96 (my Super 400 CES is a 97) and installed it and have loved the guitar ever since. 57 Classics rule in a Gibson archtop.

Interesting I find the 57 classic to be the best by far. My 2005 has them and cannot imagine anything sounding better. Also for whatever reason I have never found any Benedetto pickup to sound all the great. I mean the whole range of them that are Benedetto's. The floating ones that are black just look plain ugly and sound does not sound anything as good as a number of others I prefer. Gibson basically wins in the pickup department. The other manufactures can copy and get something as good probably by why not just stick with the real Gibson pickup. As an aside I have 2 BJB floaters on my L5c and Legrand and wow they are magnificent.

[Jimmy Mack]

Eh....why do folks complain that the newer 57's don't sound a s good as the old one's ?

You folks seem to relish your 57's from the 90's + or - .

OK, i'll go back to my cave now.

[yebdox]

I wound up with something different. Generally not a fan of 57 classics, sound slightly muffled to me. I wanted more clarity with a bit more bottom end in my ’97 Wes. So after speaking with Jason Lollar, I decided to try a high wind Lollar Imperial (slightly more output.) Turned out just right, like hitting the “loudness” button on your stereo. Didn’t look any further.

[Herbie]

Eh....why do folks complain that the newer 57's don't sound a s good as the old one's ?

You folks seem to relish your 57's from the 90's + or - .

OK, i'll go back to my cave now.

That’s a wisdom – or a rumor – that started some years ago in The Gear Page or in Mylespaulforum. About 2006 Gibson changed the wire from ’good’ plain enamel to ’bad’ polyester enamel (don’t ask me why they are good or bad) and that’s why they don’t sound the same.

A couple a years ago I bought one Classic 57 from 1995 to check the rumor, but then suddenly I didn’t have a guitar to put it on. Soon I bought a 1984 ES-175 and thought to put it in, but it has the Shaw pickups and they sound glorious. A bit more balanced and less bottom-muddy than Classic 57s. So I sold the pu and the rumor stayed unsolved.

[Archie]

I've always had a passion for Hb-1's and Super 58's but a good 57, is part of the Gibson sound that I hear in my head.

Sometimes you don't need to improve on perfection.

I think the HB-1's and Super 57's sound better with the shorter scale, being that I think they have a touch more clarity and tighter bottom end.
The 57's probably compliment the longer scale which has a more focused tone.