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I'm a huge Grant Green fan and always looking to chase his tone. Can't afford a real 330 so its the Epi Casino for me. I have a 2016 MIC model all stock and am thinking of upgrading the stock pickups and the wiring harness to better parts. I watched a YT video of Mick from That Pedal Show do this for his Casino with the exact specs and color as mine but I'd like to hear the recommendations of others who've done this upgrade. Is the difference night and day? Worth spending abound another 350$ on a MIC guitar? or would it still be lipstick on a pig? I'd like to hear your opinions please.
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04-07-2023 06:08 AM
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I did it about a year ago, Lollar dogears. Highly improved the sound. But I was not sure what to expect and the result didn’t sound better than my Les Pauls or ES175s so soon I sold the guitar and the pickups.
Not long after that I stumbled to an ebony Epi ES339 P90s, bought it, put in the Gibson P90s and now it is my go-to-cheapie. Easy to play and sounds good. (Only the colour bothers me, I’d dig a cherry red one better.)
But I didn’t test flat wounds in that Casino, only tried to play rock with round wounds in it, so I don’t know about Grant Green -thing.
I think that the F-holes of Epi are bigger than in Gibsons, but the changes thru them are still mentally challenging. A tough way to learn calmness.
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Inexpensive does not always mean bad. I have played dozens of epi casinos. There seems to be a range from really well built to critical problems. If the guitar is good, you want to play it, and you want to sound a particular way: then I would spend the money. Why? … because I will play the guitar, and it will sound more the way I want it too. If you think about it, it would be just as easy, to make an argument about how ridiculous it would be to have to change PUs on an expensive guitar.
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I bought a Casino MIC already with the upgrade of the pickups and the electronics of a Casino Elitist. I can't be happier. And it is an option that is not very expensive.
My next improvements will be to change the bridge for a Tone Pros with nylon saddles and Groover Vintage Locking Rotomatic tuners.
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The difference will not be night and day. It’ll be subtle at best, maybe imperceivable, it’s also possible it’ll sound worse to you. Are you a tone chaser, drinking all the advertising cool aid?
Originally Posted by Kathmandu Cat
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So many people have upgraded their Epiphone that you should be able to find a used one already upgraded. You can never get the value of the upgrade so the new buyer gets the benefit of the upgrade.
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IT's a tough call to make, from a distance!
If you like (really like) the guitar body and neck and its playability, then an upgrade is worth it.
I have a "Made in China" Epi Casino with Gibson P90's. It is a great guitar. I won't be changing anything.
If you change p/ups, then it makes sense to change pots....and maybe the switch....because the guitar is on the bench and opened up! But there is work involved!!! If you are comfortable with wiring and soldering... then go to it.
Sometimes though, we overshoot with our expectations. If the guitar is good now, maybe the work and expense will only yield moderate improvement.
Pretty subjective if you ask me. Only you can make that call. Best of luck in your search
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I have a 2017 Chinese Casino. I bought it new, with the intention of upgrading everything - and I did, step for step. I knew it made no sense, but I viewed it all as an education. Maybe some of this will be useful to you. In order:
The stock pickups were too hot and middy for me (compared to my vintage 125tdc, which this was to be a sub for). I put Fralins in, and redid the harness with Bourns type 95 sealed pots, Switchcraft switch and jack, and braided wire. This made by far the biggest difference of everything I did.
I replaced the junk tuners with Schaller ST6Ks. Much better tuning experience.
I replaced the bridge studs with Faber hardened steel, and put a Faber locking bridge on it. No significant tonal change, but the bridge gave me a nice warm and fuzzy stable feeling.
The pot metal trapeze was replaced with an ABM bell brass unit. This made a small but noticeable difference in the lower strings; the tone was slightly better “defined,” for lack of a better word.
Cut a bone nut. Looked better than the stock plastic.
I added a De Lisle Pentatone (Varitone) because I had it laying in a drawer. It was fun.
Thinned down the thick poly. This surprised me. The body vibrated noticeably more. I did it because I hate the dipped-in-plastic feel, but it freed up the wood some how. Can’t say if it made a tonal difference. I completely removed the finish from the back of the neck, down to the diamond-hard filler coat.
I was very happy with the guitar. For a couple years it was the electric I typically grabbed, even though it was my cheapest.
Them I decided to strip the sunburst (I dislike this particular type of sunburst). This was a big mistake. I finally ran into the limits of my handicraft. It’s been sitting in its case, waiting for me to decide if I want to try to save the husk, or just dump it. I don’t want to talk about it; it’s too painful.
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Interesting! How did You thin down the poly? Originally Posted by stevo58
Here’s my ’poor man’s ES330’ with the upgrades. The black fingerrest is DIY, surprisingly good.
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600 grit wet sand and patience. Originally Posted by Herbie
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Ok. I considered that operation too but I estimated that I might not have the needed amount of patience… Originally Posted by stevo58
Did You achieve a shiny finish or did You left it matte?
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I went at it afterwards with micro mesh pads to a couple thousand. In the end, it was sort of a semigloss. My skin didn’t stick to it any more.
As long as the sludge is milky white, you’re removing poly clear coat. When it takes on color you’ve gone too far. So you have to use your judgement. I opted for a little thicker than what I thought would be ideal , and it was fine. I removed the finish from the neck first, because I wanted that completely off, and that gave me a feel for the rest. It worked out brilliantly. I’m really p*ssed at myself for not leaving well enough alone.
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Stevo…. To me it sounds like that guitar is worth saving. Sand it down to the sealer and then finish in a solid color perhaps?
Or you might do to it like I did to my ES-330 kit when I messed up the finish of the top (tried to dillute nitro with terpentine…. Ouch…). I took a piece of cloth and dabbed a burl-like pattern with an ordinary furniture stain and put serveral coats of clear nitro over it. It came out pretty nice!
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I bought some P90s that someone was selling from their Casino recently for my Gretsch G5420. They were only $20 for the pair. I was ready for the them to be overly hot or else to sound dull due to the metal covers, but they sound great. The pickups were wound to about 8.5k and had a nice mix of bite and warmth. I was going to pull the covers and use some black plastic ones instead, but there appears to be no need.
I've heard reports of some Casinos sounding dull because brass was used on the covers rather than nickle/silver. I've also heard other reports of some Casinos coming with very hot P90s wound to 13k. So YMMV with Casinos depending on the model and year. There are of course plenty of interesting boutique P90s to try out, although probably you can't go wrong with the standard Gibson P90s, which are about $100 each.
Edit: These were from the Epiphone Casino Worn, and the pickups are called "Epiphone PRO P-90." Apparently they do have the nickel silver covers, and tin-plated brass base plates, with Alnico V magnets.
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Epiphone pickups (and guitars) have gone thru so many evolutions, and growth, by the way.
I remember the 60's models (great) and then the 70's models (not so great). In the 90's, I tried a few, and quickly put them back on the rack.
Now I own 3, sold another. They are so much better than what we used to get (including some Gibsons).
The latest Epiphone p/ups have come a long long way, competing with Gibsons! I have Pro Buckers on a Pro 335, and they are great.
Use your ears, not the "Internet" ears.
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Yes, the standard Casino pickups are (were?) wound very hot, 12-13k. The pickups on the worn models are much more reasonable, and don’t scream to be replaced. My Fralins are wound even lower, about 7k, I think, with the bridge 10% more.
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I tried out a ‘Worn’ Casino in the store some time ago and it was so good for that money that I almost took it home on the spot if I didn’t already have my DIY Casino/ES-330.
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IMHO the thin finish on the worns is also a huge plus. If I were buying one today, I wouldn’t even consider the standard version.
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Soundwise it’s perhaps an advantage but the finish is actually the only beef I have with the worn models: since they don’t use grain filler you see and feel all the grains and imho it looks a bit cheap. But only up close. Originally Posted by stevo58
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