Two Rock Studio Pro: Ibanez JP20: iphone 13: Mucking About

[Archie]

Does this guitar sound thin to you?

Couldn’t find my USB adapter to plug the UA in so went with the iphone.

The amp and this guitar sound very good together. The guitar vol and tone were set to roughly 1/3 open.

Not as good but reminiscent of an L5 CES type sound to my ears.
Maybe a Tal Farlow is a better comparison but it doesn’t come to mind, over the CES.

You decide but would you think this to be a jp20 if you hadn’t seen it? I think a few might be surprised.

On the other hand, the point of this isn't to dispel myths. If you think it sounds thin; it does. Just don’t use Joe Pass as your yard stick. He sounded thin on everything except in the studio.

[skiboyny]

Yes

[Chris236]

Does this guitar sound thin to you?

Couldn’t find my USB adapter to plug the UA in so went with the iphone.

The amp and this guitar sound very good together. The guitar vol and tone were set to roughly 1/3 open.

Not as good but reminiscent of an L5 CES type sound to my ears.
Maybe a Tal Farlow is a better comparison but it doesn’t come to mind, over the CES.

You decide but would you think this to be a jp20 if you hadn’t seen it? I think a few might be surprised.

On the other hand, the point of this isn't to dispel myths. If you think it sounds thin; it does. Just don’t use Joe Pass as your yard stick. He sounded thin on everything except in the studio.

Different strokes! That guitar sounds absolutely great with the right settings and attack. I love where the pickup is….it fattens up but still cuts through with the tone dialed completely off…it’s that ultra thin neck that ruins that guitar. Totally under-appreciated instrument Despite that.

[Archie]

Different strokes! That guitar sounds absolutely great with the right settings and attack. I love where the pickup is….it fattens up but still cuts through with the tone dialed completely off…it’s that ultra thin neck that ruins that guitar. Totally under-appreciated instrument Despite that.

The neck on the later models is more ‘normal’. The earlier ones had the flatter backs. I don’t mind either but I get the displeasure.

[jorgemg1984]

It sounds really good. I once auditioned a Two Rock for a few hours and couldn't get my archtop to sound like that - which made my wallet very happy.

[Chris236]

The neck on the later models is more ‘normal’. The earlier ones had the flatter backs. I don’t mind either but I get the displeasure.

Interesting, I wasn’t aware there were years where the neck was bigger. Might have to take another look at some point and, NO - that doesn’t sound thin….just bright, but in a good way. That guitar shines at high volumes especially.

[Archie]

Interesting, I wasn’t aware there were years where the neck was bigger. Might have to take another look at some point and, NO - that doesn’t sound thin….just bright, but in a good way. That guitar shines at high volumes especially.

I’ll take some measurements for you.

[Chris236]

I’ll take some measurements for you.

Thanks! But don’t bother, I’m set for now!

[Archie]

Thanks! But don’t bother, I’m set for now!

No worries Chris. It was only to give you an idea of what I consider 'normal'. You might think it's still small. I was curious to know.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I don't think it sounds thin - it just has more top and a bit less bottom than a typically thunky Gibson archtop. To me, this is the classic sound of a 16" laminated Ibanez archtop with the stock pickup from that era. As I recall, the JP20 is laminated, although I could be wrong. Even my AF207 (which has a very similar body) sounded like this with the original pickup in it and still has a bit of that tone even with a Benedetto B7.

[John A.]

I would guess that it’s not a neck position humbucker for sure. Thin is not a exactly the right word for it, though.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I would guess that it’s not a neck position humbucker for sure. Thin is not a exactly the right word for it, though.

Technically, it's a "neck position" pickup. But it's about 1 1/2" back from the end of the fingerboard, as I recall. The JP20 has a 25 1/2" scale - so pickup position and string tension work together to lighten up the tone a bit. My AF has a 24 3/4" scale and the pickup is maybe half an inch closer to the neck. It shows in the tone, which is just a bit fatter than the JP20.

[Chris236]

No worries Chris. It was only to give you an idea of what I consider 'normal'. You might think it's still small. I was curious to know.

Appreciate that, Rich - fire away! I like necks on the bigger side…..was relieved to find the 2471’s neck on the robust side. The triumph is pretty close to ideal for me although my left hand is typically pretty easy to please (assuming the neck isn’t too thin). The JP is a terrific guitar with a great sound - trying to remember what I moved to from there….hmmm, might have been a custom that I ended up hating.

[John A.]

Technically, it's a "neck position" pickup. But it's about 1 1/2" back from the end of the fingerboard, as I recall. The JP20 has a 25 1/2" scale - so pickup position and string tension work together to lighten up the tone a bit. My AF has a 24 3/4" scale and the pickup is maybe half an inch closer to the neck. It shows in the tone, which is just a bit fatter than the JP20.

It sounds a lot more like the middle position of a 3 pickup guitar than a standard neck position under the 24th fret (or closer to the end of the neck).

[entresz]

To my ears it doesn't sound thin, but it doesn't sound like a neck position pickup either. I'm hearing less bottom end, but also a lot more upper mids than a normal neck pickup. I used to gig with a Gibson L6-S; that has a 24 fret fingerboard. The neck pickup tone from that reminds me a bit of the JP-20. I could add bass, and roll off the tops, but nothing could dial out this 'hardness' in the mid range. For the style I play I much prefer the sound of a guitar that has the pickup near the 20th or 22nd fret.

[Archie]

It's worth baring in mind that this has a thinner body and so will have less bottom end regardless of the pickup placement.

These archtops are designed to be more mid focused.

What I'm trying to avoid is the thin, somewhat unpleasant sound that Pass, seemed to produce on his.
Although I think he produced that same unpleasant biting treble, on his twin pickup 175.

[Jimmy blue note]

Sounds good. Not as full as a good match of pickup and body could be though. Ibanez obviously didn't put a PAF in their guitar, they couldn't. I did. It changed everything. My JP20 needs very little tweaking just plugging into an amp. My personal thought is Ibanez did their guitar a huge disservice by matching it with the Super 58. PAF, or Seth Lover or Antiquities did it for me, but that's another story and another thread.
The Joe Pass has great inherent clarity in the body with the spruce laminate top, warmer than a 175 but with the solidity in the decay, a very woody attack and the PAF takes the edge off and brings out the mids without pushing them the way the 58 does.
Anyway, it made my JP into a whole different guitar.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

My personal thought is Ibanez did their guitar a huge disservice by matching it with the Super 58.

Yes indeed! As much as I love their guitars (of which I’ve had 5 since the ‘70s, with 2 still in my regular gigging arsenal), they’ve occasionally made some odd choices. Putting a DiMarzio Blaze in the AF207 was a classic one that kept a wonderful FujiGen archtop from sounding its best.

[Jimmy blue note]

Yes indeed! As much as I love their guitars (of which I’ve had 5 since the ‘70s, with 2 still in my regular gigging arsenal), they’ve occasionally made some odd choices. Putting a DiMarzio Blaze in the AF207 was a classic one that kept a wonderful FujiGen archtop from sounding its best.

At the time the JP20 was made, early 80's, Hoshino (Ibanez) was forging a partnership with Seymour Duncan. They used Duncans on some of the Prestige line eventually, and that partnership eventually was supplanted by a switch to DiMarzio who does custom winding and pickups for high end Ibanez shredder guitars the last I knew.
But at the time the JP was initially built, Hoshino was out to prove themselves and they were stinging from the lawsuit possibilities of the then reigning Gibson corporation. They WANTED different, but to my ear, different is not necessarily better. But that's me. And they're Ibanez.

[Chris236]

Sounds good. Not as full as a good match of pickup and body could be though. Ibanez obviously didn't put a PAF in their guitar, they couldn't. I did. It changed everything. My JP20 needs very little tweaking just plugging into an amp. My personal thought is Ibanez did their guitar a huge disservice by matching it with the Super 58. PAF, or Seth Lover or Antiquities did it for me, but that's another story and another thread.
The Joe Pass has great inherent clarity in the body with the spruce laminate top, warmer than a 175 but with the solidity in the decay, a very woody attack and the PAF takes the edge off and brings out the mids without pushing them the way the 58 does.
Anyway, it made my JP into a whole different guitar.

I think the Super58 sounds excellent in that guitar….do you still have it? I’ll buy it from you and swap out the neck pu in my Byrdland!

[Chris236]

It's worth baring in mind that this has a thinner body and so will have less bottom end regardless of the pickup placement.

These archtops are designed to be more mid focused.

What I'm trying to avoid is the thin, somewhat unpleasant sound that Pass, seemed to produce on his.
Although I think he produced that same unpleasant biting treble, on his twin pickup 175.

The tight, focused bottom end in conjunction with being able to roll the tone off without the muddiness due to the pickup and location is what makes that guitar special….you’re talking me into talking myself into finding another one of those things now.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

At the time the JP20 was made, early 80's, Hoshino (Ibanez) was forging a partnership with Seymour Duncan. They used Duncans on some of the Prestige line eventually, and that partnership eventually was supplanted by a switch to DiMarzio who does custom winding and pickups for high end Ibanez shredder guitars the last I knew.
But at the time the JP was initially built, Hoshino was out to prove themselves and they were stinging from the lawsuit possibilities of the then reigning Gibson corporation. They WANTED different, but to my ear, different is not necessarily better. But that's me. And they're Ibanez.

The Blaze in an archtop is a perfect example of this. It’s still popular in shredland, and the only difference between the one they put in archtops and the one they’ve sold to rockers for years is that mine has a gold cover.

Different sells because it catches the attention of the market. I’m always reminded of dramatic clothing when this topic comes up. People buy it because it catches their attention. But when they put it on at home and look in the mirror, they wonder why they bought it.

Yes they’re Ibanez, which is why it’s so surprising to me that they occasionally miss a target by so wide a margin. They’ve spoiled a few very fine models through bad choices and pulled them after very short production runs because they didn’t sell.

[Jimmy blue note]

I think the Super58 sounds excellent in that guitar….do you still have it? I’ll buy it from you and swap out the neck pu in my Byrdland!

Ha, I should've known back then that it'd (they'd...I've swapped out plenty) be so popular some day. When I worked for Ibanez there was a repairs room with shelves full of parts and pieces, some new, some from destroyed guitars (every so often there'd be a day when massive amounts of unsold 'seconds' or hopelessly flawed guitars were brought to the centre of the massive work space and smashed to slivers before the parts were cannibalized for repair and warrantee work. It was pickup heaven and a great place to get a JP-20 tailpiece. Being a luthier and having a sense of adventure, I could claim a "hopeless" guitar, swap out any parts I wanted, repair anything I wanted and wind up with the most brilliant Frankenstein monsters...but I'd still put Duncan pickups in them, ha ha. If I ever purge the old parts boxes in the shop, I'll post the Super58's here.

[jim777]

Sounds good to me As others have said, not so much thin as just a little more high end in there.

I have the luxury (if you could call it that) of not having been playing jazz for the last 30-40 years, so I'm not chasing any sound in my head from 40 or 50 year old albums, so that would absolutely work for me.

[Chris236]

Ha, I should've known back then that it'd (they'd...I've swapped out plenty) be so popular some day. When I worked for Ibanez there was a repairs room with shelves full of parts and pieces, some new, some from destroyed guitars (every so often there'd be a day when massive amounts of unsold 'seconds' or hopelessly flawed guitars were brought to the centre of the massive work space and smashed to slivers before the parts were cannibalized for repair and warrantee work. It was pickup heaven and a great place to get a JP-20 tailpiece. Being a luthier and having a sense of adventure, I could claim a "hopeless" guitar, swap out any parts I wanted, repair anything I wanted and wind up with the most brilliant Frankenstein monsters...but I'd still put Duncan pickups in them, ha ha. If I ever purge the old parts boxes in the shop, I'll post the Super58's here.

Great! From the sound of it I’ll be able to negotiate thoroughly due to lack of interest!