Stringtech's Compensated nut....

[SOLR]

This luthier always makes a compensated nut on your guitar when you bring it in !

This video shows a better look at the process on a strat....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwLV4F6ssKM

Good stuff starts at 5'50"

M.Mconneville of Stringtech"The scale length / string gauge / tuning preference / action height / left hand fretting pressure / neck relief ..... ALL come into play ...... in order to attain this degree of accuracy. This is why it will always be a moving target. But when it is Right ... Nirvana !"Th


Te scale length / string gauge / tuning preference / action height / left hand fretting pressure / neck relief ..... ALL come into play ...... in order to attain this degree of accuracy. This is why it will always be a moving target. But when it is Right ... Nirvana !"

S

[deacon Mark]

New strings and set up with adjustments at saddle is ok. Leave the compensated nuts to others. Don’t try to make the guitar a violin with intonation.

[sgosnell]

Can you say Buzz Feiten?

[GuyBoden]

I'm yet to be been convinced.

When I tried it years ago, some chords sounded intune, some sound not so intune.

But, chords using open strings sounded more intune.

A guitar's intonation is a difficult and complex compromise, in my very amateur opinion.

[RJVB]

New strings and set up with adjustments at saddle is ok. Leave the compensated nuts to others. Don’t try to make the guitar a violin with intonation.

I don't see why you wouldn't strive for the best possible intonation as allowed by the not-so-happy equal temperament we're stuck with if we want to keep using regular frets.

Compensation at the saddle may be enough, but the way I understand things it has more effect on the intonation higher up because it only affects the sounding part of the string. Compensation at the nut affects the entire string.

Case in point: my Cordudba intonates sharp over the entire fretboard, IIRC about 5ct at the 5th fret on the trebles with the open strings in tune. Tuning to the 5fth fret would make the open strings 5ct low. A poor man's nut compensation (a 2.1mm diam. bamboo toothpick) under the strings and against the fret fixed that, and decreased the intonation error by a similar amount over the entire string.
It's very counter-intuitive, but I think that
- compensation at the saddle aiming at the 12th fret corrects intonation proportionally; more the higher you go, less the lower you go.
- compensation at the nut introduces an intonation shift that's more or less constant over the entire fretboard.

[kris]

This luthier always makes a compensated nut on your guitar when you bring it in !

This video shows a better look at the process on a strat....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwLV4F6ssKM

Good stuff starts at 5'50"

M.Mconneville of Stringtech"The scale length / string gauge / tuning preference / action height / left hand fretting pressure / neck relief ..... ALL come into play ...... in order to attain this degree of accuracy. This is why it will always be a moving target. But when it is Right ... Nirvana !"Th


Te scale length / string gauge / tuning preference / action height / left hand fretting pressure / neck relief ..... ALL come into play ...... in order to attain this degree of accuracy. This is why it will always be a moving target. But when it is Right ... Nirvana !"

S

Great videos...thanks for it.
Nut compensation is a great thing!

[John A.]

Speaking as a nut, I strongly support nut compensation.

[GuyBoden]

I don't see why you wouldn't strive for the best possible intonation as allowed by the not-so-happy equal temperament we're stuck with if we want to keep using regular frets.

Compensation at the saddle may be enough, but the way I understand things it has more effect on the intonation higher up because it only affects the sounding part of the string. Compensation at the nut affects the entire string.

Case in point: my Cordudba intonates sharp over the entire fretboard, IIRC about 5ct at the 5th fret on the trebles with the open strings in tune. Tuning to the 5fth fret would make the open strings 5ct low. A poor man's nut compensation (a 2.1mm diam. bamboo toothpick) under the strings and against the fret fixed that, and decreased the intonation error by a similar amount over the entire string.
It's very counter-intuitive, but I think that
- compensation at the saddle aiming at the 12th fret corrects intonation proportionally; more the higher you go, less the lower you go.
- compensation at the nut introduces an intonation shift that's more or less constant over the entire fretboard.

I set my guitar's intonation using the popular 3rd and 15th fret method, where the two notes on the 3rd and 15th fret are exactly intune, I move each saddle back/forward to get the correct note. I use a very accurate Peterson Strobe tuner. This is the method I have used since the 1970's.

Using this method, except for the 3rd and 15th fretted notes, all the other notes on my guitars are slightly out of tune.

So, what does a compensation nut do differently?

[jim777]

I have two guitars with Earvana nuts, and it do think they sound the tiniest bit better for strumming chords on the three frets closest to the nut, that's about it. You'd need a 'true temperament' neck to make a real difference. Steve Vai has a few, you can pop ahead to about 45 seconds in this clip to where he discusses it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XJXKV8v3...feature=shares

[SOLR]

For those that did not watch the YT,
This is a more elaborate process than just changing the nut .

The first part intones from the bridge saddles and implies a straight neck/levelled frets /new strings etc..
Then and only then does he make the nut for your instrument ..no 2 nuts are the same! And all the guitars he repairs /setup get this...Of course, it's a business so it probably costs a bit more for your setup..but I can say about half of my guitars actually sound perfect as is , the other half take some tweeking and would benefit from this process....

S

[GuyBoden]

Does anyone use "Sweetened" tuning?

Peterson tuners have this setting.

"Many seasoned professionals “tweak” their guitar’s tuning to improve its sound; we call this “Sweetened Tuning”.

If you are not familiar with this kind of tuning jargon, relax, because there is one tuner that does it all for you. Because of Peterson tuners unique “Sweetened Tuning” feature, each tuner has a host of tempered presets which you simply choose - the tuner then guides you automatically – just like using an ordinary tuner – but sweeter. Its easy! Using your Peterson strobe tuner, your guitar will sound much better than when tuned using an ordinary tuner. "

Tuning 6-String Electric Guitar | Peterson Strobe Tuners

My experience was that some chords sound better, some don't, using this "Sweetened" tuning.

As someone mentioned, the answer is this:

[RJVB]

My experience was that some chords sound better, some don't, using this "Sweetened" tuning.

IMHO you use a "sweetened" tuning if you tune to notes that are important in the piece you're about to play or otherwise adapt your tuning so certain intervals sound better, or even if you tune your open strings 1-2ct flat.

[SOLR]

I'm pretty sure J. Kreisberg uses a compensated nut , he does play a lot of open strings chords all over the neck and he's one of those players I find most in tune. Like I said, you may or may not need one, it depends....

This looks like one during his Jazz at Baltica series from 2008:

S

[Stringswinger]

I had a guitar made by a Canadian luthier (Michael Dunn) that had a compensated nut (and a straight saddle). It had the usual guitar compromises when it came to intonation. Perhaps the combination of a compensated bridge and compensated nut would have been better?

I had two guitars made my my guitar tech in the 70's and 80's, Ralph Novak, that had his fanned fret system. Now those guitars had great intonation everywhere, but they were difficult (for me) to play.

I have learned to deal with the imperfect intonation of a guitar. For all their faults, a standard tuned guitar (with the usual nut) still sounds pretty good to my ears, particularly when they are played by the likes of Wes, Joe and Kenny. And they sound OK when I play them as well, even with an uncompensated nut.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[SOLR]

BTW not a thread about whether one should use a comp nut or "nut" (not) ......but more about the method this luthier uses, which I find not only interesting but also demonstrates his amazing 50 + years experience and his willingness to share his knowledge to all....One of Ontario Canada's most respected luthier...

Enjoy the videos...

S

[kris]

RMC Pickup: Classical Guitar Intonation

[jim777]

Every single Ernie Ball/Music Man guitar and bass has a compensated nut, and has for years.

[bluejaybill]

I have the Feiten compensated nut on my Les Paul, have for years.

My recollection at the time was it improved intonation, particularly of open strings. How much you notice it depends on the style you are playing and also how much recording you are doing. Bad intention really shows up there. For live playing, not so much.

I don't really feel a need for it on longer scale guitars.

[lammie200]

I put Earvana shelf nuts on all my Fender-like partscasters. I also put Hosco offset spacers on my Gibsons and my Martin. I like them or I wouldn't have them. Arguing about them is not where I like to go but science is involved, FWIW.

[GuyBoden]

I put Earvana shelf nuts on all my Fender-like partscasters. I also put Hosco offset spacers on my Gibsons and my Martin. I like them or I wouldn't have them. Arguing about them is not where I like to go but science is involved, FWIW.

Personally, I think that this is good info:
Understanding Guitar Intonation with Nut Compensation

I find this very interesting, because I'm in the process of setting up a 7 string guitar I have built/assembled, so intonation is very relevant for me at the moment.

My view is that a compensation nut is only really needed for open strings, when setting intonation using the open strings and 12th fret method.

"With the saddle compensated, and strings in tune at fret 2 or 3, you will find some open strings to be flat, especially low E, then A on acoustics, and unwound G on electrics. Recall that pitch is determined by distance to the saddle. So, to raise the open string pitch, positive nut compensation is done by moving the nut release point toward the saddle. Moving the nut release point will shorten the vibrating string length, raising pitch, but it will not increase the string tension, nor affect the pitch of fretted notes."



I setup my guitar's intonation using the 3rd and 15th fret method. I never tune guitars using open strings, I rarely use open strings, my guitars are "intune" at the frets, so luckily I don't need a compensation nut.

[RJVB]

I also put Hosco offset spacers on my Gibsons and my Martin.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of these but they look useful!

[SOLR]

Personally, I think that this is good info:
Understanding Guitar Intonation with Nut Compensation

An excellent addendum to the videos.

Thx for posting,

I liked the "case studies" where he used RJVB's toothpick method (well, temporarily )

S

[RJVB]

I liked the "case studies" where he used RJVB's toothpick method (well, temporarily )

Great minds etc

Still using my method on 1 guitar with a (nylgut) G string that's apparently not very true. Compensates that perfectly and I really don't hear a difference (with a piece of bamboo).

[lammie200]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of these but they look useful!

Depending on your nut slot height you may need a few layers of tape under the spacer. Once in a while I have filed a slot down but raising the spacer up is usually what is involved.

[SOLR]

An excellent addendum to the videos.

Thx for posting,


S

Well, I've just re tuned using the 2nd fret instead of open /12th and chords are so much more accurate now. Learn something everyday...... And I've not replaced the nut ...yet....I did intonate the bridge saddles using the 2nd and 14th frets method although Sting Tech uses 7th and 19th frets..

A quote from I don't know who but it's an excellent one

S