Martin OM guitars used in jazz?

[Skip Ellis]

Check out Eric Skye on his small, signature Santa Cruz.

[Jimmy blue note]

From Julian Lage's etudes, techniques he develops for use in improvisational performances. He's using a OOO OM type body on a flat top.

[wintermoon]

I can’t think of anyone other than Nick Lucas among the real early guys who played flattops, unless you count ragtime/Piedmont style players like Blind Blake as jazz, or maybe Brownie McGhee. Among more recent guys, a lot have. Vic Juris has been pictured with what looks like an OM style

Attachment 96922

Eddie Lang w the Mound City Blue Blowers before he got a Gibson L-4., Carl Kress w Paul Whiteman to name a couple.

[Melodius Thunk]

There are many contemporary jazz players that play OM’s. Just off the top of my head, I can think of Tim Lerch, John Miller, Julian Lage, Rolly Brown, Sandy Shalk, and one of the guitar players from Tuba Skinny has recently swapped out his archtop for an OM. Vinny Raniolo plays a jumbo OM style guitar.

Not an OM. But, Jordan Hollinrake will often play jazz on an Atkin 000:

[John A.]

Eddie Lang w the Mound City Blue Blowers before he got a Gibson L-4., Carl Kress w Paul Whiteman to name a couple.

I thought they might have, but could only find picture of them playing archtops.

[Melodius Thunk]

I thought they might have, but could only find picture of them playing archtops.

Eddie Lang’s Guitars Part One Article Link: prewargibson



I am not sure who is on the guitar here:

[RJVB]

Or try an M-36, the model originating from converting a busted F-7 archtop to a flat-top?

[westsideryan]

I do appreciate all of the responses. But, I am not looking to buy another guitar. I am completely satisfied with the instruments that I currently own. And, I am also not asking if Jazz can be played on an OM style guitar. I know of plenty of people who do just that. And, sound great doing it. I am specifically interested in the early history of the OM. And, any early photos and/or recordings of it being used in the context it was originally intended to be used in.

[KirkP]

OMs are best known for fingerstyle and solo or small ensembles. Eric Shoenberg did as much as anyone to rekindle interest in them. Here’s John Miller.

[alltunes]

Does anyone know of any old recordings where the guitarist is playing a Martin OM? And/or know where I might find some photos of players playing OM’s in a jazz setting back in the day? I am just curious and haven’t been able to find much of anything.

John Carlini play a Martin M36 LIKE GUITAR:

[John A.]

Eddie Lang’s Guitars Part One Article Link: prewargibson



I am not sure who is on the guitar here:

Cool!

[Christian Miller]

But, I am not looking to buy another guitar. I am completely satisfied with the instruments that I currently own.

I don’t understand what this bit means. Can anyone help?

[mr. beaumont]

I don’t understand what this bit means. Can anyone help?

No clue, but I just ordered a kazoo to play along with jazz solos in the car instead of just singing. Now I'm really going to look like a crazy motherfucker to anybody next to me at a stop light.

[westsideryan]

I don’t understand what this bit means. Can anyone help?

I am the one who wrote it. So, I can try to explain. I started this thread because I was interested in the early history of the OM guitar as used in a jazz context. People have responded with opinions on how they believe an OM would work for jazz playing. And, others have suggested different guitars. It seems to me that some people may have thought that I was asking if one could play jazz on an OM guitar. Or, that I was looking for a suitable guitar for jazz playing. This is not the case. I was/am strictly looking for photos and/or recordings of early jazz played on OM’s.

As an example, here is a 1936 photo of Al Bowlly of the Roy Fox Orchestra playing a Martin OM-18:



And here is a site with some historical info on the OM:
The Martin Orchestra Model

[westsideryan]

No clue, but I just ordered a kazoo to play along with jazz solos in the car instead of just singing. Now I'm really going to look like a crazy motherfucker to anybody next to me at a stop light.

Not as crazy as the guy that I encountered at a stop light playing a trumpet!

[DanielleOM]

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that. I have a Collings OM1A Traditional. It sounds fantastic for jazz.

I am just curious about the history of the OM. Being that it was designed to be replace the banjo in a orchestra. And, that it was called the ‘Orchestra Model’ to appeal to band leaders and rhythm players. I figured that there would have to be a couple of old recordings out there. I do realize that they were more popular with the singing cowboys and western swing folks. But, I would think that there would at least be some recordings of Perry Bechtel playing one.

I am kicking myself for not keeping any of paper catalogs I used to get from Mandolin Brothers. I loved the guitar descriptions and history in those pages. From those publications I recall the OM guitars were introduced for banjo players who were used to longer scales lengths. (Long after the 000 guitars were introduced.)

[westsideryan]

I am kicking myself for not keeping any of paper catalogs I used to get from Mandolin Brothers. I loved the guitar descriptions and history in those pages. From those publications I recall the OM guitars were introduced for banjo players who were used to longer scales lengths. (Long after the 000 guitars were introduced.)

I really miss those catalogs as well.

[wintermoon]

I really miss those catalogs as well.

I stumbled on a couple boxes of them the other the day, The Vintage News

[iim7V7IM7]

Perry Bectel…

I am kicking myself for not keeping any of paper catalogs I used to get from Mandolin Brothers. I loved the guitar descriptions and history in those pages. From those publications I recall the OM guitars were introduced for banjo players who were used to longer scales lengths. (Long after the 000 guitars were introduced.)

[bluejaybill]

I really miss those catalogs as well.

I miss those prices.

[Christian Miller]

No clue, but I just ordered a kazoo to play along with jazz solos in the car instead of just singing. Now I'm really going to look like a crazy motherfucker to anybody next to me at a stop light.

excellent idea!

[Christian Miller]

I am the one who wrote it. So, I can try to explain. I started this thread because I was interested in the early history of the OM guitar as used in a jazz context. People have responded with opinions on how they believe an OM would work for jazz playing. And, others have suggested different guitars. It seems to me that some people may have thought that I was asking if one could play jazz on an OM guitar. Or, that I was looking for a suitable guitar for jazz playing. This is not the case. I was/am strictly looking for photos and/or recordings of early jazz played on OM’s.

As an example, here is a 1936 photo of Al Bowlly of the Roy Fox Orchestra playing a Martin OM-18:



And here is a site with some historical info on the OM:
The Martin Orchestra Model

ok I was being silly

but actually that is quite interesting, I thought Bowlly was a selmer player primarily. I would suggest that a Martin might be lacking in the midrange cut one might need for an acoustic jazz performance, but in the end it’s pretty marginal stuff.

I know one early jazz specialist, Spats Langham who plays a flat top with that type of body shape. I couldn’t really hear him with a jazz orchestra but then I couldn’t hear another players Gibson l7 in the same situation either. A guitars a guitar even after all the evolutions it went through in the 20s and 30s just to get a little more projection and cut. I’ve come to the conclusion that acoustics, the way the drummer plays and the dynamic of the band are all much more important that whether your guitar is 16” or 17” or whatever.

if you are amplifying, there’s solid reasons to favour a flattop - much more choice in pickups and so on if you want an acoustic sound as opposed to an electric archtop tone

[L50EF15]

If I remember my history (specifically, riding the S46 bus back to ferry from Mandolin Brothers and reading one of those catalogs, courtesy of Stan Jay), the OM was designed to compete with the L5. Perry Bechtel found the L5 too harsh sounding and wanted something that would work in an orchestra without that harshness.

I have seen that Al Bowlly photo before, and I remember that catalog from Stan had photos of Perry Bechtel playing an OM, so I know it was used as originally intended at least some of the time. The thing is, despite this history, most people seem to think of OMs (and the 000s) as fingerstyle guitars.

I suspect that some Western Swing bands probably used them (maybe The Lightcrust Doughboys for example, though Smoky Montgomery’s tenor banjo was the key element in that band’s sound). You might search for pictures and recordings of those groups instead of East Coast big bands.