Ibanez Artcore Expressionist - generic replacement tuners anyone?

[blackcat]

Loving my new AS93 that arrived two weeks ago but whilst the 'Ibanez' ( Gotoh?) tuners work well in the main, the one on the 5th/A string is rapidly slack when de-tuning. I would like to replace them. Is anyone aware of good quality generic versions ( gold ) that are identical in size ( one screw at the back ). Thanks.

David

[Jimmy blue note]

First thing, take a fine screw driver and tighten the screw of the button. A loose button screw can cause that symptom. Next, Grovers also have that same single screw at 6 o'clock but I think the difference of the radius may not fit. Of course you can either get a new set of Gotohs or get grovers, and fill the existing hole with a very thin dowel (or toothpick) and cut off the excess and drill a new hole for the grover, or since you can get any tuner at that point, find something you really love.
If you get Sperzels, they have a hidden pin system that means no need for a set screw at all.
The internal tuner ferrule width should be interchangable for all those.
But start with the button screw.

[blackcat]

First thing, take a fine screw driver and tighten the screw of the button. A loose button screw can cause that symptom. Next, Grovers also have that same single screw at 6 o'clock but I think the difference of the radius may not fit. Of course you can either get a new set of Gotohs or get grovers, and fill the existing hole with a very thin dowel (or toothpick) and cut off the excess and drill a new hole for the grover, or since you can get any tuner at that point, find something you really love.
If you get Sperzels, they have a hidden pin system that means no need for a set screw at all.
The internal tuner ferrule width should be interchangable for all those.
But start with the button screw.

Thanks for that. Interestingly though, the screw on the end of the button is already fairly tight. Concerned not to screw up the nylon (?) spacer washer when tightening. Shame because the other five tuners seem perfectly OK. Apparently, claiming for a new tuner involves going back to Bax Shop under the guarantee and they then require it to be returned to them for 'testing' and they then order a replacement from Hoshino. Turnaround not less than 6 - 8 weeks during which time the guitar is out of commission. In the meantime, they sent me (gratis) a complete set of B-Stock Wilkinson Kluson -types with the incongrous green agate ( resin) buttons. Weird.

Thanks again.

David

[Jimmy blue note]

Thanks for that. Interestingly though, the screw on the end of the button is already fairly tight. Concerned not to screw up the nylon (?) spacer washer when tightening. Shame because the other five tuners seem perfectly OK. Apparently, claiming for a new tuner involves going back to Bax Shop under the guarantee and they then require it to be returned to them for 'testing' and they then order a replacement from Hoshino. Turnaround not less than 6 - 8 weeks during which time the guitar is out of commission. In the meantime, they sent me (gratis) a complete set of B-Stock Wilkinson Kluson -types with the incongrous green agate ( resin) buttons. Weird.

Thanks again.

David

Yeah don't do the send back to Hoshino. I worked at Ibanez, and during the time I worked there, they'd just as likely send you a new guitar altogether, which may not have necessarily been a bad thing but who knows what you'd get, not a known quantity you may have chosen yourself.
Anyway, I guess you'll get practice in switching out a tuner set if you want everything to match.
My personal suggestion: Take this as an opportunity to upgrade to something of the highest quality. In Asian guitars, and when I plundered the seconds room in my time at Hoshino (one of the best reasons to work there), I'd make three switches from the onset. 1) Pickups 2) Tuning machines 3) Output Jack to a Switchcraft 1/4". These are the three areas that Asian guitars and Ibanez in particular came up short in my book (easiest way to go functional while cutting corners). Funny thing too, because at the Hoshino factory there was literally a barrel full of Grover kidney bean tuning machines they'd sell me for a couple of bucks (they used these on acoustic guitars). Once I made these upgrades, the guitar became a top quality player that felt great, lasted forever and sounded exactly the way I needed.

Consider the upgrade, and ugh Wilkinson; Functional but not a serious option in the world of precision tuners. Schaller, Grover, Sperzel (and for an OK option, high end Gotoh.) There's something solid about the feel of a good tuner.

Yeah, just my opinionated two cents. Most of all, get your guitar working and have fun playing!

[blackcat]

Yeah don't do the send back to Hoshino. I worked at Ibanez, and during the time I worked there, they'd just as likely send you a new guitar altogether, which may not have necessarily been a bad thing but who knows what you'd get, not a known quantity you may have chosen yourself.
Anyway, I guess you'll get practice in switching out a tuner set if you want everything to match.
My personal suggestion: Take this as an opportunity to upgrade to something of the highest quality. In Asian guitars, and when I plundered the seconds room in my time at Hoshino (one of the best reasons to work there), I'd make three switches from the onset. 1) Pickups 2) Tuning machines 3) Output Jack to a Switchcraft 1/4". These are the three areas that Asian guitars and Ibanez in particular came up short in my book (easiest way to go functional while cutting corners). Funny thing too, because at the Hoshino factory there was literally a barrel full of Grover kidney bean tuning machines they'd sell me for a couple of bucks (they used these on acoustic guitars). Once I made these upgrades, the guitar became a top quality player that felt great, lasted forever and sounded exactly the way I needed.

Consider the upgrade, and ugh Wilkinson; Functional but not a serious option in the world of precision tuners. Schaller, Grover, Sperzel (and for an OK option, high end Gotoh.) There's something solid about the feel of a good tuner.

Yeah, just my opinionated two cents. Most of all, get your guitar working and have fun playing!

Thanks for all that - valued perspective. Certainly did not ask for anything by Wilkinson, just a goodwill gesture from Bax Shop from their B stock bin. Likely to find their way to e-bay in due course. Interesting that you have the overview on Ibanez. The AS93 is well made and finished ( now that I have profiled and polished the frets, oiled the board and adjusted the action although the TOM is well down by the time I had achieved 3/64ths" on the bass side). Indonesia seems to have delivered on this occasion. However, you may have seen that I ordered this by way of exchange for a new AMH90 where the TOM was at ground zero with strings flying (very) high at the 12th fret measurement. Couple of years back, I returned an AS153 that was probably the worst example of guitar manufacture execution I have ever seen - also Indonesia. My Chinese AFJ95 is superb and the fit and finish + tone once I installed a Seth Lover in the neck has been compared to a (good ) Gibson. No doubt Japanese models are always consistently good?

Thanks again,

David

[Jimmy blue note]

There was a heirarchy of craft and expectation when it came to Ibanez guitars and country of manufacture. Understand that Hoshino gives the specs and factories from all over the far east bid for the contracts to make their guitars. So a spec for a guitar may be made at Fujigen in Japan to a level unequaled by anyone, and that same guitar type made in Indonesia sells for a few hundred bucks looks the same, same specs but might use a sustain block under the bridge that is one step above balsa wood. Cheap cheesy generic pickups that are hot and meant to be put into a distorted amp.
Japanese were the best, Fujigen. Korean were made be Peerless, sometimes other really good factories were next in craftiness. Samick and Cort made guitars for Ibanez as they did for PRS, Epiphone, lots of others. Chinese made guitars were the best bang for the buck and they were always improving their specs and becoming more and more competitive. Indonesian guitars had the shoddiest materials and quality control, and the ones we rejected the most often in Bensalem where the USA importing and processing factory was. But I worked there a while ago and one thing about Asian guitars, their production improvement was scary. Some factories would improve quality within months, but when their prices reflected the higher grade materials, Hoshino would 'shop' for another factory.
So if you got a good guitar with a bad machine, and you sent them the guitar, you might get a replacement that was from a lot that just got the contract by being cheaper and you'd never know. They all look exactly the same.
When I worked with uncrating and setting up and QC on guitars from all over, I kept a track of the factories of origin and when I left Ibanez, the good ones were the ones I reached out to when I started my own line of imports.

That's the game plan in Asia. Kinda different from the way things are run in Nashville. Make of it what you will.

[blackcat]

There was a heirarchy of craft and expectation when it came to Ibanez guitars and country of manufacture. Understand that Hoshino gives the specs and factories from all over the far east bid for the contracts to make their guitars. So a spec for a guitar may be made at Fujigen in Japan to a level unequaled by anyone, and that same guitar type made in Indonesia sells for a few hundred bucks looks the same, same specs but might use a sustain block under the bridge that is one step above balsa wood. Cheap cheesy generic pickups that are hot and meant to be put into a distorted amp.
Japanese were the best, Fujigen. Korean were made be Peerless, sometimes other really good factories were next in craftiness. Samick and Cort made guitars for Ibanez as they did for PRS, Epiphone, lots of others. Chinese made guitars were the best bang for the buck and they were always improving their specs and becoming more and more competitive. Indonesian guitars had the shoddiest materials and quality control, and the ones we rejected the most often in Bensalem where the USA importing and processing factory was. But I worked there a while ago and one thing about Asian guitars, their production improvement was scary. Some factories would improve quality within months, but when their prices reflected the higher grade materials, Hoshino would 'shop' for another factory.
So if you got a good guitar with a bad machine, and you sent them the guitar, you might get a replacement that was from a lot that just got the contract by being cheaper and you'd never know. They all look exactly the same.
When I worked with uncrating and setting up and QC on guitars from all over, I kept a track of the factories of origin and when I left Ibanez, the good ones were the ones I reached out to when I started my own line of imports.

That's the game plan in Asia. Kinda different from the way things are run in Nashville. Make of it what you will.

That is really interesting and thanks again. I introduced Peerless to France over twelve years ago as a favour to my good friend Graham Esson who had the distribution rights for all 27 EU countries. Doc Dosco ( used to post on this forum ) had a good relationship at the time with the Lee family who owned Peerless after Mr Lee ( formerly company accountant of the original enterprise ) sold off one factory and invested in the remaining plant. Then inconsistency set in and 'Friday' guitars started to appear. They also at one point became picky over replacing faulty models resulting in the loss of major retailers over here. That is when Graham parted company and established Fibonacci in London. A shame, because early Peerless were of a good standard as I am sure you would agree.


David

In the end, after a fairly intensive set up ( although the TOM is lower than I would like with an action of 3/64" at the twelfth fret ) the guitar is a pleasure to play and to behold....................the finish is excellent.