Kent Armstrong 12 pole HB in a budget guitar.

**garybaldy** · 09-05-2022, 08:40 AM

I'm contemplating getting a KA handwound 12 pole set in neck humbucker to put in either an AF55, an EEJP or a basic 70s Japanese 175 style guitar. Is it worth it and if so, which would you give it a go in first?
Thanks

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 09-05-2022, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by garybaldy

I'm contemplating getting a KA handwound 12 pole set in neck humbucker to put in either an AF55, an EEJP or a basic 70s Japanese 175 style guitar. Is it worth it and if so, which would you give it a go in first?

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Earlier this year, I took a chance and put a Benedetto B in my decades old Ibanez AF. It was a dramatic improvement that I love. But whether it’s worth the cost and effort to you depends on you and what you want to achieve.

If (like me) you already had the guitar, love it, but want to upgrade its jazz tone, most of us would prefer a KA to almost any pickup that came in any of the guitars you mention. But to buy one of them with the expressed intent to install a specific pickup is more than doubling the risk you won’t be glad you did it. If this is the case and you really like the KA ‘bucker sound, you might watch for a used guitar in your price range that’s already had the swap done. I see many come and go on the web.

**garybaldy** · 09-05-2022, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Earlier this year, I took a chance and put a Benedetto B in my decades old Ibanez AF. It was a dramatic improvement that I love. But whether it’s worth the cost and effort to you depends on you and what you want to achieve.

If (like me) you already had the guitar, love it, but want to upgrade its jazz tone, most of us would prefer a KA to almost any pickup that came in any of the guitars you mention. But to buy one of them with the expressed intent to install a specific pickup is more than doubling the risk you won’t be glad you did it. If this is the case and you really like the KA ‘bucker sound, you might watch for a used guitar in your price range that’s already had the swap done. I see many come and go on the web.

Thanks. I already have the 3 guitars. They all need a bit of a 'lift'. I've least bonded with the Epi.
I have a 70s T Top somewhere in the house which I'll probably try in the 175 copy. So it looks like the KA would go in the AF55. I think 2 of them would look nice in that one!!!

**ccroft** · 09-05-2022, 12:48 PM

I don't know your guitars at all. I can say that I did the switch with a carved Eastman, and it was very definitely worth every penny in my book.

**Woody Sound** · 09-05-2022, 01:52 PM

The set in ones are tricky to wire up. Just be sure to get the instructions.

**Swingstring** · 09-05-2022, 02:36 PM

In my experience, in terms of the amplified tone, pickups matter probably more than any other component of the guitar. Certainly more than body wood or the fretboard, which have negligible impacts on the amplified sound.

So yeah, if you like playing the guitars, I say it makes plenty of sense. A pickup upgrade can take an affordable electric guitar and make it sound just as nice an expensive one.

As an anecdote, my dad had some vintage PAF-type pickups lying around. We put them in the Epiphone Les Paul that I grew up playing. Between that and a good setup, it now plays and sounds as nice as any Gibson LP that I have tried. With the stock pups it sounded nasal and muddy, too hot.

**Swingstring** · 09-05-2022, 02:43 PM

^ I have not tried the KA 12-pole, but it sounds fabulous in every guitar I have heard it in and is a staple among archtop luthiers with good reason.

I'd say put it in the guitar that you bond the most with or the one you would most like to see upgraded. I am sure it would fit very well in either one of the ones you mentioned, OP.

**Spook410** · 09-05-2022, 03:59 PM

I use KA 12 pole pickups in several carved guitars. They are a good match for the acoustic sound of those instruments. Thing is, I'm not sure I would be putting this pickup in a not-very-resonant body. For something warm and jazzy I would just put in a good copy of a Gibson 57 Humbucker (inexpensive example: Stewmac Parson Street). Not sure all guitars take advantage of a broader spectrum pickup like the KA 12. However, a lot of less expensive guitars benefit from a pickup swap. Seems this is an area where many manufacturers scrimp.

That being said and while I do like pickup swaps, strings and to a lesser degree, picks may matter more. And overall, great EQ will take you farther than most mods. Very few guitar amps have even decent EQ. Something like a Zoom pedal with lots of fun features also has pretty good EQ to experiment with. Then there are dedicated EQ pedals that do a great job. My favorite is the Empress ParaEQ which can sometimes be found used.

**Woody Sound** · 09-05-2022, 04:06 PM

I had both versions of the 12-pole, a floater and a set. They both sounded fantastic, especially the floater. But as I mentioned, the lugs on the bottom of the set version are a bit hard to figure out. If I remember correctly, there are 6 lugs, and jumpers have to be used. But ICBW.

**Woody Sound** · 09-05-2022, 04:13 PM

The thing I dislike most about swapping pickups is, for all the work involved I end up forgetting how the old one sounded compared to the new one. Unless it's a drastic difference. A real A-B side-by-side hearing would be great, but obviously that can't be done. Maybe my ears are getting old.

**Swingstring** · 09-05-2022, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

The thing I dislike most about swapping pickups is, for all the work involved I end up forgetting how the old one sounded compared to the new one. Unless it's a drastic difference. A real A-B side-by-side hearing would be great, but obviously that can't be done. Maybe my ears are getting old.

I agree.

For this reason, the next time I swap pickups I will probably try to do a pre and post recording with the same settings, in order to at least get a bit of a verifiable idea about the difference in tone.

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 09-05-2022, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

The thing I dislike most about swapping pickups is, for all the work involved I end up forgetting how the old one sounded compared to the new one. Unless it's a drastic difference. A real A-B side-by-side hearing would be great, but obviously that can't be done. Maybe my ears are getting old.

That’s one benefit of a simple computer recording setup. Since I started capturing my playing and changes I’ve made (like pickup swaps), I’ve learned a ton. Here’s the thread I started when I swapped the Benedetto B7 into my Ibanez. The first post has before and after sound files.

[edit] Nuts! I’ve been too cheap to buy up to Soundcloud unlimited, so I’ve been deleting older files to stay under the 1 hour limit on the free tier. Unfortunately I removed those files. I may have to bite the bullet and go to the paid tier.

**st.bede** · 09-05-2022, 05:50 PM

Yes

I have an inexpensive Stienberger Spirit. I put in Bartolini PUs. Now the guitar sounds a lot better. It was pretty bad before... a cheap EMG type sound. Now I can use the guitar for anything I do. The PUs cost probably more then what I paid for the guitar. However, it was easily worth it to have a very portable guitar, that sounds good.

There are times when I will not buy a guitar given a price point, knowing that it will cost me another $300+ to get it to work they way I want it too. That happens on both sides of the price equation.

I have come to strongly believe that wood does have an tonal impact. Also fret scale, and fret wire. Those have a foundational effect. I think it is best to match the PU to that.

What finely took away my “wood” tone skepticism was a series of Warmoth videos.

**burchyk** · 09-05-2022, 10:10 PM

If you like the guitar but not the plugged sound a pickup swap might be the ticket.

I've put SD Antiquities into an Epi Dot Studio which cost me less than those pickups and it was worth it for me.

KA hand-wound pickups are great. I've once swapped the floater in Ibanez AF-105F for the floating KA PAF and was really happy about it.

**Woody Sound** · 09-06-2022, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by burchyk

KA hand-wound pickups are great. I've once swapped the floater in Ibanez AF-105F for the floating KA PAF and was really happy about it.

I assume you had to widen the cutout in the pickguard a little bit?

**garybaldy** · 09-06-2022, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

The set in ones are tricky to wire up. Just be sure to get the instructions.

Thanks WS

**burchyk** · 09-06-2022, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

I assume you had to widen the cutout in the pickguard a little bit?

Sorry have no recollection of, that was 10y ago. Suspect that I did but it must have been an easy mod which left no impression, other than that the pickup was drastically better suited for what I was after. Smooth, balanced and clear.

**mikeSF** · 09-12-2022, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by garybaldy

I'm contemplating getting a KA handwound 12 pole set in neck humbucker to put in either an AF55, an EEJP or a basic 70s Japanese 175 style guitar. Is it worth it and if so, which would you give it a go in first?
Thanks

a pickup is unique to the instrument, so what sounds great in one guitar may be a dog in another as a different set of frequencies are enhanced, attenuated, etc.
My fave pickup is the KA individual pole 'PAF' model. I've had nothing but great experiences dealing with Kent - you want to call him directly and order by phone. Do not order a 'Kent Armstrong' pickup from a distributor. go for it