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My e string appears to go a little flat around the twelfth fret and above after about one week.
That’s around 14 hours of play. I don’t clean my strings and I use thomastik 12s.
I was curious, how long does the intonation of other people’s e strings last?
Last edited by Llamadave; 11-09-2022 at 11:43 AM.
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09-02-2022 06:11 PM
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Dont know what you mean with intonation. After intense playing strings might go out of tuning (flat). A change in ambiant conditions such as temperature and/or humidity, strings may go either flat or sharp. Intonation stays as is and only changes with different string gauge
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Huh? in my 50+ years of playing guitar, it's been an accepted fact of (physics) metallurgy, that wear and tear plus tension etc. puts a strain on those little bits of wire - the thinner they are, the worse the wear and tear. And the same goes for classical guitar strings. After a month ----- forget about playing chords around the 10th fret.
Originally Posted by hotpepper01
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I have gone 2 years no joke and they intonated fine. Strings last me a really long time and I play regularly. I suppose if one is playing the same guitar 5-6 hours a day that might change the picture for sure. I rotate guitars and so not like anyone gets that amount of playing time daily. I had a set of D'addario chromes lasted fine for 2 years at least on my Hollenbeck but I wanted to go back to nickel wound so changed them, they intonate fine.
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14 hours shouldn't be that hard on a 12. Try cleaning any gunk off of the string. (Usual practice) Originally Posted by Llamadave
My e string appears to go a little flat around the twelfth fret after about one week.
That’s around 14 hours of play. I don’t clean my strings and I use thomastik 12s.
I was curious, how long does the intonation of other people’s e strings last?
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High frets?
When you remove the string, feel along its length. You may notice a significant kink where the string touched each fret. That can't be good for intonation, can it?
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Mine can last for years... apparently.
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That’s very interesting. I know I need a fret dress but didn’t think that would wear down the strings faster. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
ill see if they last longer after I get that done.
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Mine last for years. Rotosound provide a spare high E with each set, but I never have reason to use it. I used to give them to art students.
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If your frets are badly worn you should expect intonation problems. The string is being stopped, depending on the divot, at the front or back of the fret rather than its top .
Originally Posted by Llamadave
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Hi, L,
I clean my strings when I finish playing(every time) with Dunlop string cleaner(both sides) . . . 2-3 hours of daily playtime on my CG's(one day) and my EG(another day). I rotate my 3 CG's every 10 hours of playtime while my EG is played continuously. I use Savarez and D'Adddario HT strings on my CG's. They take 4-5 hours to settle in for consistent playing and begin to have intonation problems between 15-18 hours of playtime(varies). I'll usually replace them at 22 hours when they lose clarity and projection. On my EG, I use D'Addario Chrome 12's with a 13 E string and a 17 B string(larger gauge). I have 87 hours playtime on my Gibson with perfect intonation in the upper register beyond the 12th fret. I changed the trebles(E,B) at 76 hours when they became dull and lost proper intonation. I hope this helps you.
Marinero
P.S. I previously played D'Addario Pure Nickel 12's and I replaced them at 25-30 hours due to intonation issues.
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I have to disagree. I play 50+ years guitar as well and teach mechanical engineering at the University. Intonation in my book = above all a matter of the distance between nut and bridge saddle being correct and NEVER changes as long as the bridge and nut stay in place. Pitch changes due to temperature and humidity and yes, wear and tear. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
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I think it's possible for intonation to start to be affected as the tin plating starts to be worn off. When my strings start to change color and become black, no longer shiny silver, they start to sound bad. The diameter and the weight start to change slightly as the plating is worn off, and I don't think it takes much variation along the string to change its vibration slightly. But as long as the plating is intact, I don't see much change, certainly not after a couple of weeks. Some people's skin chemistry affects strings more quickly than others, though.
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The fundamental frequency of a vibrating string depends on tension, length and linear density (weight per unit length). Originally Posted by hotpepper01
If a string is unevenly worn, its weight per unit length can differ depending on which fret you press. i.e. the string's weight can be different on each side of the 12th fret.
That affects intonation.
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It's probably acidic sweating that makes strings go bad that fast, I've seen it on a few people. I use the same strings and they last for months. Always playing with clean hands and wiping the strings afterwards seems to make a big difference.
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When you take the string off, or actually before, give it a good look down the length of the fretboard and see if there's any visible dents or kinks or any other unusual mark.
What you are describing is, in my experience, something the guitar is causing.
Is it just the high E?
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I change the high E after a couple of months due to intonation issues myself. The string is always a bit corroded when I change it.
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I don’t think it’s a matter of wear. The frets wear, but I think the depressions in the strings are mostly areas at which the mass & density of the metal have been changed by compression. So the metal has been both partially pushed away from the point of fret contact and compressed - and as this progresses, it further thins and alters the metal. The diameter of the string is no longer round where you see and feel irregularity, and the elasticity of the string has been changed there. The metal also work-hardens, which further changes its vibrating characteristics. Originally Posted by Llamadave
So it’s not surprising that minor shifts in accuracy of both fretted notes and harmonics may occur with progressive loss of the uniform shape, dimensions, density, and mechanical properties with which the strings left the factory. To be honest, I’ve never had it cause audible problems before many, many hard gigging hours. I used to change the Guild or Gibson flats on my 175 every 4 to 6 weeks, which was at least 10 five to seven hour weddings, half a dozen jazz dates, and daily practice. Intonation was still fine - if it was off, I’d already have changed the offender(s).
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New strings do sound, well, new, but intonation is always mainly a G-string issue.
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Strings can go bad even unplayed, if left in an normal humidity environment for too long, especially if not in a sealed package.
Between different guitars, I usually have dozens of string sets around, and every now and then some get forgotten, or maybe I want to try something new and never get to it, people give you different brands etc. So I've had sets sitting for a couple of years, maybe more, and when you put them on the guitar they are already off, and you only see some humidity discoloration if any.
My champions are the strings on an Ibanez metal guitar that I've had for maybe 15 years now.. I hardly ever play it, it has a Floyd rose trem and the same strings on since I got it! Great intonation
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Rereading the OP, I see that TI strings are being used. Those probably have brass plating instead of tin, and the brass does seem to wear more quickly. I've seen a number of complaints of TI plain strings having intonation issues, and that's possibly the cause. They're also slightly thinner than other strings, because they're made to metric dimensions, and given the closest imperial equivalent. I replace the plain strings when I use TI flats with larger tin-plated strings, usually .013 and .016, when using a .012 set. I don't particularly like the brass plated strings, but many do.
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No one has mentioned string bending - strings used to play blues or rock are pretty much guaranteed to wear unevenly and have intonation problems in a short period of time.
I pretty much don't bend strings on my archtop strung with Labella 14 tapes and they last a LONG time, like over a year, before I want to change them.
OTOH, I've gone through a brand new set of Ernie 009s on my LP after a single three-hour outdoor gig on a hot day ... my sweaty hands literally rusted the strings in that time, even though I washed hand before playing and wiped down each string with a clean cotton cloth after each set.
I've also gotten one new set of LaBellas that had screwed-up intonation from minute one on the guitar. After one frustrating day, I swapped them out for another brand-new set and the intonation issues disappeared.
HTH
SJ
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My assumption, which I offer without proof, is that the string becomes kinked where it touches the frets. The higher the fret and heavier the touch, the more the string is deformed. You can feel this on an old string.
Thinking it through, it seems to me that the kinks would affect the fundamental least. Conversely, kinks would affect the high harmonics the most. The higher harmonics involve smaller lengths of string vibrating and, I would imagine, are more affected by imperfections in the string. Seem to me they might slow down the vibration and therefore make the string sound flat, compared to a new, perfect string.
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Playing style factors into it also. The string needs only to be pressed with just enough down force to allow the note to ring clearly. Any extra force beyond that and you're placing unnecessary friction on strings and frets. Old school method for determining how hard you need to press is to barely touch the string, you won't get a note, you'll get a noise. Press just a very tiny amount more and you'll get a mix of "almost a note" and still click/ thud artifact. Add just a tiny bit more force and the note rings out clearly and sustains. THAT is all the force you should be applying to every note. Our hands tend to mimic one another so if you pick or pluck very hard it is very likely that you are fretting too hard also. Sure picking with more force can add dynamics and phrasing but there's a limit to the usable range. Try slamming your pick through the strings a la Townsend windmills while paying close attention to the amount of force your fretting hand is holding down a bar chord.
Last edited by whiskey02; 09-03-2022 at 10:53 PM.
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I’m also in the “this has never happened to me” group. Any intonation problems have been fixed with bridge or nut adjustments.
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