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Your problem is over the past 18-24 months archtop’s have gotten more expensive.
I cannot think of a single floating pickup archtop that is available for $1k today, beyond a new Loar LH600. But those guitars are cannon’s. The question is, can you handle the V neck.
The Loar LH-600 | Reverb
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07-19-2022 02:35 PM
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Doesn't mean they can only shoot far (after breaking in, at least)
Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
For the V neck: check with your local luthiers before buying, if they'd accept to slim it down, for how much (and what potential risks). That's what I'd do.
The alternative would be to check with Mr. Wu or who's that other builder again.
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Originally Posted by Gabor
Gretsch's legacy existed way before what is commonly assumed to be it's "rockabilly origin". Its not a one-off from them.
It too has a vintage style V-neck. If you read through the attached link you will see the specs.
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I quite like the new Gretsch New Yorkers but everyone seems to think they are dog****
Godin 5th Avenues are nice guitars but quite quiet. The Gretsch's seemed to be a bit louder but maybe I'm imagining it.
If acoustic tone is more important than volume and you want something that will gig well, the 5th Ave with the p90 (forget the name) is used by many working players and I've heard them sound great on stage. If acoustic volume is all important get a Loar or an Eastman (if you can afford)
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I think I looked at those when shopping for my 1st guitar. I was set on a resonator and seem to recall not having been very convinced by what I read about the New Yorker. I'm surprised to see it has a solid top though (https://www.gretschguitars.com/gear/...auk/2704055537). "Arched spruce", which does suggest it's pressed and not carved but I can be wrong. The specs claim a 9" fretboard radius, but it looks like a 16"... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Interestingly, tailpiece and saddle appear identical to the ones The Loar uses.
These are in fact Fender instruments btw, and I'm not at all enthralled by their end-user support. From what I understand they've stopped providing parts (entirely) and they voided my warranty when they learned I had replaced the nut on my resonator.
That said, this archtop is a lot more like a "normal" guitar than a resonator is so parts availability and warranty probably aren't as important as they are on more "mechanical" instruments. It's well within your budget and any official Fender/Gretsch dealer in your area should be able to order one. You should get the typical archtop sound from it, and it comes with a well-appreciated PU. I'd replace the pickguard though for one that leaves the treble f-hole more exposed (to improve the acoustic sound, but keep the original in case you need to make a warranty claim).
You're damn right that there's more to an acoustic instrument than just volume, but I don't see how the tone you'll get from a P90 is going to be acoustic (now matter how close it sounds)...If acoustic tone is more important than volume and you want something that will gig well, the 5th Ave with the p90 (forget the name) is used by many working players and I've heard them sound great on stage. If acoustic volume is all important get a Loar or an Eastman (if you can afford)
≥ The Loar Elektro Akoestische gitaar met koffer — Snaarinstrumenten | Gitaren | Elektrisch — Marktplaats
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Helpful writeup on Jonathan Stout's blog: Modern Gear for the Vintage Player
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Originally Posted by unclejam79
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So far I have the Loar 700 and the monels. All I need now is the DeArmond and the pick! Originally Posted by unclejam79
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Originally Posted by RJVB
I think I looked at those when shopping for my 1st guitar. I was set on a resonator and seem to recall not having been very convinced by what I read about the New Yorker. I'm surprised to see it has a solid top though (Hollow Body :: G9555 New Yorker™ Archtop Guitar with Pickup, Semi-gloss, Vintage Sunburst). "Arched spruce", which does suggest it's pressed and not carved but I can be wrong. The specs claim a 9" fretboard radius, but it looks like a 16"...
Interestingly, tailpiece and saddle appear identical to the ones The Loar uses.
These are in fact Fender instruments btw, and I'm not at all enthralled by their end-user support. From what I understand they've stopped providing parts (entirely) and they voided my warranty when they learned I had replaced the nut on my resonator.
That said, this archtop is a lot more like a "normal" guitar than a resonator is so parts availability and warranty probably aren't as important as they are on more "mechanical" instruments. It's well within your budget and any official Fender/Gretsch dealer in your area should be able to order one. You should get the typical archtop sound from it, and it comes with a well-appreciated PU. I'd replace the pickguard though for one that leaves the treble f-hole more exposed (to improve the acoustic sound, but keep the original in case you need to make a warranty claim).
You're damn right that there's more to an acoustic instrument than just volume, but I don't see how the tone you'll get from a P90 is going to be acoustic (now matter how close it sounds)...
? The Loar Elektro Akoestische gitaar met koffer — Snaarinstrumenten | Gitaren | Elektrisch — Marktplaats
At that price the Gretsch has to have a pressed top, though that's not a big deal.
Surprised to see a "padauk" fingerboard. Doesn't look like it to me in pictures, but maybe it's stained? (Padauk is usually a very nice red/rust color.) It's a nice wood nonetheless.
It sounds like a good guitar and looks good, but I would think you'd have to play it to see if it works for you.
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When I got into archtops a few years ago I looked long and hard and ended up with a used Eastman AR810CE from a reputable seller (important if you're buying used).
I've been thrilled with the sound, the playability, and the overall look and quality. I don't know about availability in your locale, though.
It's out of your 1000 Euro price range, though. However if you can stretch, buy the best you can rather than buy it twice when you realize the cheaper guitar isn't as good as you want.
It has a floating style pickup, which doesn't harm the acoustic sound to any degree I can tell. It's good enough; I play almost all acoustic anyhow.
Of course I play at just under 1% of the ability of Rob McKillop so take that into account!
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The thing to keep in mind with those Eastmans is that the recent models are electric models with (IIRC) fixed PUs and controls in the top.
Here's a rather interesting deal on an older AR805CE that's still an acoustic-electric:
Eastman AR805CE Sunburst Archtop 2005 | Reverb
For that price it's got some battle scars but it's in Europe. Of course it's still almost double your budget ...
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As I mentioned earlier, the only acoustic that meets the $1k threshold is the Loar LH600. Eastman’s, fogetaboutit. Originally Posted by RJVB
The prices of these guitars have increased 30-40%.
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Yes, it looks like the loar it is, LH-600. I'll wait a few weeks if i stumble on some discount but even if I don't I'll still get it. I like fatter necks so it shouldn't be an issue. I could slim it down, but then I would need to refinish it, and knowing myself that would lead to other tinkering so I better leave it alone
Eventually i might resell it to get something better so that's another reason not to mess with it.
Thank you for all your replies and suggestions. Off to camping with the kids...wish I had an acoustic archtop to take with me and annoy everyone
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If you have a banjo bring that, it has a similar effect =) Originally Posted by spiro2903
Yes, it looks like the loar it is, LH-600. I'll wait a few weeks if i stumble on some discount but even if I don't I'll still get it. I like fatter necks so it shouldn't be an issue. I could slim it down, but then I would need to refinish it, and knowing myself that would lead to other tinkering so I better leave it alone
Eventually i might resell it to get something better so that's another reason not to mess with it.
Thank you for all your replies and suggestions. Off to camping with the kids...wish I had an acoustic archtop to take with me and annoy everyone
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think I'm going to piggyback on to this great discussion.
So I'm not a complete beginner, but relatively so. I normally play just at home for my own enjoyment.
I've got a 5th Ave Kinpin Cw II (the cutaway version w/ 2 P90s). I know a lot of people like those pickups, but they seem harsh to me. (Not so bad fingers only, but even with a heavier pick very heavy on the high end.) I've found they're OK in 2 ways:
- If I turn volume to half or less and tone almost all the way down it's an OK tone for my jazz tastes. Not in love with it, though.
- If I switch to both pickups and bring the tone up to no more than half way it's a good 50s rockabilly sound. I guess no surprise, P90s on an archtop was common back then! I don't really play that stuff, though--only when I want to listen to this guitar do it.
The guitar itself, though, is incredible bang for the buck, and I got it for a great deal. Right now, I'm trying to decide between 3 directions, keeping to a modest cost:
1. Buy an acoustic only 5th Ave currently on Craigslist for a good price including acoustic pup. Use bronze strings, and add a floating pickup such as a Kent Armstrong or Rhythm Chief, which are supposed to get along with bronze. This way, have an acoustic sound, and also a different electrified sound--and possibly blending them. (Allows me to keep the Kingpin as is, but I may never play it then!)
2. Shop around for a vintage Kay or Harmony with a solid top, and equip with pickups as described above.
3. Strip the Kingpin of the P90s, and convert to a more acoustic configuration like above via strings and pickups.
or 4--Do nothing now, and just start saving now for a solid Eastman, Loar, etc.
Ultimately, it's my choice of course, but I'd love to get others thoughts!
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You can’t go wrong with a solid Eastman acoustic. About $1900 minimum. But I’ve seen a few better buys.
But I’m a huge fan of the Loar LH650. Having owned it, it’s a dream archtop when you get a good one. Problem is, everyone knows that, which is why they’re nowhere to be found on the used market anywhere. I didn’t anticipate that year’s ago when they were available.
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But what exactly is it you're after? It sounds a lot like your answer may already be in the replies above, except that you'd probably indeed want to substitute a Harmony or Kay for the European vintage instruments. Or, start saving for a vintage L50 or L48, which can currently be found for prices comparable to that of an Eastman. Originally Posted by jim232777
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Loar lh600, Krivo micro Manouche pickup, lr baggs Para di into a pa
sorted
gigged that rig today on a swing/Dixie gig. Very happy
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Scusi? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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public address system. Originally Posted by RJVB
Scusi?
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I've just looked up the Para. Website says it for an acoustic pickup. Would that be a piezo ie very high impedance? Is the Krivo classed as an acoustic pickup? Thanks Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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The Krivo is a magnetic pickup that is suitable for acoustic or electric guitars. The Baggs Para DI works with both piezo and magnetic pickups (I have one and have used it with both types of pickups and in fact, Baggs make both magnetic and piezo acoustic pickups). Originally Posted by garybaldy
Christian's suggestion is a very good one.
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yeah tbh I thought it was a piezo only thing, but I’m an experimenter so I plugged in the Krivo anyway and I was very impressed with how ‘hi fi acoustic’ it made the pickup sound. Lots of refined top end and a tight bottom end that’s great for playing time. Infinitely better than the results I got with the K&K definity through the Baggs. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
So that’s my go to rig for ‘acoustic archtop’ when I need one
note the micro Manouche could be improved for the Loar by being a little thicker; it’s a little further from the strings than it could be. Jason said he would be up for making one like this but I haven’t asked him to do it yet, but I’m sure he’d do it if a customer asked and specified that it was to be used on that type of guitar.
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Yes, Christian has a wealth of great information. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Thank you for your reply.
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I want it all, of course! Originally Posted by RJVB
Really, though, that's an excellent question, and I've been mulling it over since you posted this last night--I hadn't completely defined that before. I think it's this, in order of importance:
- I want an archtop
- ...with a good acoustic sound loud enough to play around the house with no amp
- ...with acoustic pickup for occasional recording or amp'ing
- ...also with pickup for "electrified" sound (not as bright/harsh as the current Godin P90)
- ...preferably but not mandatory, cutaway.
I note this list doesn't include having a rockabilly guitar, which is probably the only sound I would lose if I traded the Kingpin.
Possibly correct here, as well. Part of the problem is the scarcity of vintage stuff. Not sure if it's a location thing (Carolinas) or just timing, and were in a slow period. I found only a couple Harmonys around for sale, but would be 2+ hours each way to even see them, and only one looked nice enough to buy. The seller on that one didn't reply to my email question, so possibly doesn't want to give the answer, making me hesitate there. The other one was in the *opposite* direction and not as nice looking. I do appreciate you pointing out the L50/L48 possibility; I wasn't even aware of those.It sounds a lot like your answer may already be in the replies above, except that you'd probably indeed want to substitute a Harmony or Kay for the European vintage instruments. Or, start saving for a vintage L50 or L48, which can currently be found for prices comparable to that of an Eastman.
I may work on the above criteria with the easier route, Godin 5th Avenues, and just take my time on the shopping for something solid (Loar, Eastman, vintage). that narrows me down to buying the non-cutaway available semilocal (it already has a K&K pure pickup for the acoustic amplification) or retrofitting my Kinpin. As much as I'd like to have the cutaway, it would probably sell much easier (when I get my upgrade) if had the original electronics-->leaning toward getting the acoustic version, and if I like it selling the Kinpin.
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