Recent Gibson custom shop tour ... looks like they are still making archtops in 2022

[2bornot2bop]

actually production ramped up circa '67 and they were putting out about 100 annually w a peak of about 250 in '79
no production totals available '80-'85 and yeah only a handful '85-'90.
not aware of totals post '90 but I'm sure they're more than that, maybe 25-30ish annually if I had to venture a guess

I regret selling my ‘73. Well, better to have loved and lost than not at all.

[Hammertone]

actually production ramped up circa '67 and they were putting out about 100 annually w a peak of about 250 in '79
no production totals available '80-'85 and yeah only a handful '85-'90.
not aware of totals post '90 but I'm sure they're more than that, maybe 25-30ish annually if I had to venture a guess

This is what I have, not sure if there is any updated info (the totals refer to production going back to 1934).

[wintermoon]

This is what I have, not sure if there is any updated info (the totals refer to production going back to 1934).

They're about what I posted, but there are recent updates to prewar totals that were in VG mag a few yrs back
I imagine the Spann book might have them but I don't have a copy

[wintermoon]

250 bursts in '79 but only 2 blondes, interesting. I knew there was a big discrepancy but forgot how big

[Stringswinger]

My understanding is that very few Super 400's were made in the 90's each year. Mine is a 97 and I think I will be keeping her till I am due to play that gig in the hereafter.

Here she is:

[Bluedawg]

I have a lovely blond 2011 Super 400. I plan on keeping it as long as possible.

[Woody Sound]

This is what I have, not sure if there is any updated info (the totals refer to production going back to 1934).

When did they change the "P" to "C?"

[Hammertone]

IIRC, there were four Premiere models:
-S-400P / S-400PN
-L-5P / L-5PN
-L-7P
-L-12P

I don't think there is a specific cut-off date from "P" to "C", given that various carved archtop guitars were in different stages of construction from the late '40s into the early '50s. I have records and pix of:
-L-5P and L-5PN from 1948;
-L-7P from 1952.
Perhaps other members can check their guitars/files as well.

According to Van Hoose, "...early postwar [L-5P and L-5PN] instruments are usually combined with the L-5C and L-5CN numbers beginning in 1949..." Also, according to Van Hoose, there are no post-war S-400P or S-400PN labelled instruments - they were labelled S-400C and S-400CN when production of them resumed in 1950.

According to Stan Jay, "... the L-12 Premiere version ... ran for just four years, falling off the charts in 1950. ... Gibson shipped 61 of these in 1948, 19 in 1949, 5 in 1950 ..."

I imagine that it was easier for reps and retailers to deal with the self-explanatory "Cutaway" as opposed to "Premiere." My guess is that the change in the style of carving in the cutaway that took place at the same time was coincidental, driven by a desire for:
-greater production efficiency;
-uniformity in final appearance, since what I call the "P" cutaway varied considerably from guitar to guitar and was clearly done by hand.

[Nick71]

That S400 looks like a prized possession. Beautiful!!
The cream of the crop, the bee’s knee’s..
I personally am a 16 inch, single built in PU, non cutaway kind of guy.
But I have great respect and fondness for the grandness of the S400..

Nick

My understanding is that very few Super 400's were made in the 90's each year. Mine is a 97 and I think I will be keeping her till I am due to play that gig in the hereafter.

Here she is:

[Wes29]

Hi,

found this 2021 L5 CES in south Korea guitar store. Im a bit confused because the certificate is also a crimson certificate.

what do you guys think about this. Thank you and please to meet you all.



http://m.musicforce.co.kr/product/gi...1581001/26279/

[Bluedawg]

Wes29

That's a beautiful L5. Have you been able to play it?

I'm also surprised to see the Crimson certificate.

In case you're not familiar with it. The Crimson program started around 2014 or so when Henry Juszkiewicz was still running the company. They tried hard to push their archtop guitars onto the market and forced dealers to buy several high end archtops to maintain their dealer status. Many dealers chose to drop their affiliation with Gibson over this and other issues around this time. Most dealers that bought the guitars ended up struggling to sell them at prices close to their cost ... just over half of the suggested list price. At least that's the way it looked to me.

That's why you usually only found these in stock at a very small number of dealers, mainly bigger stores in a massive metropolitan area, like Chuck Levin's near Washington, DC, or a dealer with lots of internet sales, like Musician's Friend/Guitar Center. Same with their European and Asian dealers.

Overall, the "Crimson" archtops I encountered were excellent guitars and I came close to buying a couple of them, but it didn't work out.

The current management bought the company in 2018. I'm surprised to see them still using the Crimson branding for their archtops, but it does make some sense that they would maintain some continuity with their branding.

Or maybe they still have a bunch of unused Crimson certificates still lying around and decided to just keep the name. LOL

[2bornot2bop]

Hi,

found this 2021 L5 CES in south Korea guitar store. Im a bit confused because the certificate is also a crimson certificate.

what do you guys think about this. Thank you and please to meet you all.



페이지를 찾을 수 없습니다.

Gorgeous guitar. What price are they asking for it?

[wintermoon]

nice flatsawn back on that one as opposed to the less interesting quartersawn one normally sees on modern Gibsons

p.s. is it really necessary to quote long posts w/ photos?
scroll, scroll, scroll.....

[Hammertone]

... they still have a bunch of unused Crimson certificates still lying around and decided to just keep the name. ...

This. The whole Crimson thing is just useful marketing noise - some extra paper thrown into a case. Same guitars, made by the same people, using the same grade of wood. Nice looking S-400 and L-5 models above!

[Wes29]

Wes29

That's a beautiful L5. Have you been able to play it?

I'm also surprised to see the Crimson certificate.

In case you're not familiar with it. The Crimson program started around 2014 or so when Henry Juszkiewicz was still running the company. They tried hard to push their archtop guitars onto the market and forced dealers to buy several high end archtops to maintain their dealer status. Many dealers chose to drop their affiliation with Gibson over this and other issues around this time. Most dealers that bought the guitars ended up struggling to sell them at prices close to their cost ... just over half of the suggested list price. At least that's the way it looked to me.

That's why you usually only found these in stock at a very small number of dealers, mainly bigger stores in a massive metropolitan area, like Chuck Levin's near Washington, DC, or a dealer with lots of internet sales, like Musician's Friend/Guitar Center. Same with their European and Asian dealers.

Overall, the "Crimson" archtops I encountered were excellent guitars and I came close to buying a couple of them, but it didn't work out.

The current management bought the company in 2018. I'm surprised to see them still using the Crimson branding for their archtops, but it does make some sense that they would maintain some continuity with their branding.

Or maybe they still have a bunch of unused Crimson certificates still lying around and decided to just keep the name. LOL

Hi Bluedawg,

it is quite beautiful, but your blonde 2011 super 400 is truly mesmerizing.

And unfortunately I haven’t been able to play it since its quite far from my country too. I requested a clip / video to hear the tone acoustically and on amp, but they havent send me yet.

Yes, I notice that Crimson has been around since 2012 / 2014 ? After Mike mcguire hand it to Phillip Whorton, Jim Culbertson and team.
I am wondering, has the Crimson team still the same under the new management or completely different.

Or like you said, maybe they just using it for branding. But until now, I couldnt find a decent review for L5 Ces that built around 2020 - 2021.
I only noticed that couples stores has it too, like Eddies Guitar and Fellowship of acoustics. And they all said it still an outstanding archtops and sold quickly.

[Wes29]

Gorgeous guitar. What price are they asking for it?

Hi 2bornot2bop,

in USD currency, it will be around 11400 K

[Wes29]

This. The whole Crimson thing is just useful marketing noise - some extra paper thrown into a case. Same guitars, made by the same people, using the same grade of wood. Nice looking S-400.

Hi Hammertone,

So did you mean that this L5 still made by the same team and same grade of wood?

[2bornot2bop]

nice flatsawn back on that one as opposed to the less interesting quartersawn one normally sees on modern Gibsons

p.s. is it really necessary to quote long posts w/ photos?
scroll, scroll, scroll.....

I’m too lazy to delete the photos.

[Wes29]

nice flatsawn back on that one as opposed to the less interesting quartersawn one normally sees on modern Gibsons

p.s. is it really necessary to quote long posts w/ photos?
scroll, scroll, scroll.....

Hi Wintermoon,

it is a really nice flatsawn back.

[bluejaybill]

Hi Wintermoon,

it is a really nice flatsawn back.

Curious how you know it's flat sawn?

[wintermoon]

Curious how you know it's flat sawn?

In general quartered typically has straight horizontal figuring edge to edge, like late model D'Angelicos and D'Aquistos when they were using imported woods as well as many modern Gibbys. Many older archtops have flatsawn maple w interesting figure.

[Bluedawg]

Hi Bluedawg,

it is quite beautiful, but your blonde 2011 super 400 is truly mesmerizing.

And unfortunately I haven’t been able to play it since its quite far from my country too. I requested a clip / video to hear the tone acoustically and on amp, but they havent send me yet.

Yes, I notice that Crimson has been around since 2012 / 2014 ? After Mike mcguire hand it to Phillip Whorton, Jim Culbertson and team.
I am wondering, has the Crimson team still the same under the new management or completely different.

Or like you said, maybe they just using it for branding. But until now, I couldnt find a decent review for L5 Ces that built around 2020 - 2021.
I only noticed that couples stores has it too, like Eddies Guitar and Fellowship of acoustics. And they all said it still an outstanding archtops and sold quickly.

When the new management came in, I was wondering if they would drop the archtop lines. They are expensive and harder to sell at those prices. And most guitar players aren't that interested in them.

Now that we know archtops are back in production, my guess is they wanted to bring them back all along and did what they could to keep the archtop team on the payroll. Probably most of the archtop team is still there.

IMHO they have been building some of their best electric archtops since the early 90s. Archtop acoustics is another discussion.

[icr]

Ha ha, everyone wearing a mask except the guy spray painting

[John A.]

When the new management came in, I was wondering if they would drop the archtop lines. They are expensive and harder to sell at those prices. And most guitar players aren't that interested in them.

Now that we know archtops are back in production, my guess is they wanted to bring them back all along and did what they could to keep the archtop team on the payroll. Probably most of the archtop team is still there.

IMHO they have been building some of their best electric archtops since the early 90s. Archtop acoustics is another discussion.

After seeing this thread, I wrote this to Gibson via their contact page:

"Hi, I'm looking to buy a new archtop and am trying to get the lay of the land with respect to new Gibsons. Can you tell me whether either L5's or ES-175's are in production and available to order? If not, do you know when they will be? If they're only available as custom orders, can you tell me what the process is for ordering one, how long to takes to get one, and what they would cost? Ballpark estimates for these OK, I'm not asking for a firm price quote or timeline yet, as I'm still not quite sure what I want."

Their response was:
"Hello,
Unfortunately, neither of those models is being produced at this time. The only archtops we are currently producing can be found on our website at this link: https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Guitars/ES Thanks for writing!" [they didn't address the questions about about when production will resume and custom orders.]

The only hollow-body on that site is the Chuck Berry ES350T (a guitar that doesn't have a lot of appeal to the typical archtop customer base). So I don't think it's true that archtops are in production in general. If that video is showing, say, an L5 or an ES-175 (I can't tell), those must be custom orders. Others here have made similar inquiries and gotten similar responses.

[Bluedawg]

After seeing this thread, I wrote this to Gibson via their contact page:

"Hi, I'm looking to buy a new archtop and am trying to get the lay of the land with respect to new Gibsons. Can you tell me whether either L5's or ES-175's are in production and available to order? If not, do you know when they will be? If they're only available as custom orders, can you tell me what the process is for ordering one, how long to takes to get one, and what they would cost? Ballpark estimates for these OK, I'm not asking for a firm price quote or timeline yet, as I'm still not quite sure what I want."

Their response was:
"Hello,
Unfortunately, neither of those models is being produced at this time. The only archtops we are currently producing can be found on our website at this link: Gibson | Explore The ES Collections Thanks for writing!" [they didn't address the questions about about when production will resume and custom orders.]

The only hollow-body on that site is the Chuck Berry ES350T (a guitar that doesn't have a lot of appeal to the typical archtop customer base). So I don't think it's true that archtops are in production in general. If that video is showing, say, an L5 or an ES-175 (I can't tell), those must be custom orders. Others here have made similar inquiries and gotten similar responses.

Interesting ...

although, to be honest, I would not expect these guitars to be in "general production."

As I recall, even before the change in management they stated the top of the line archtops would only be done by custom order. Which would make sense to me. That way they only build one if it's already sold.

I love high end archtops, but I've seen them sitting for sale in stores for years. Very few guitar players have both the money and the desire to buy an L5. I doubt your average dealer will stock these even if they can get them.


It does look like Guitar Center is taking orders for them. None currently in stock, though. They may order some to keep on hand, but even bigger stores like Guitar Center may only order them if they have a buyer ready to shell out the cash.

Le Grand
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-Custom/Le-Grande-Electric-Guitar-Natural-1500000005651.gc

L5 CES
Gibson Custom L-5 CES Hollowbody Electric Guitar Natural | Guitar Center

Byrdland
Gibson Custom Byrdland Hollowbody Electric Guitar Natural Gold Hardware | Guitar Center

L5 Wes Montgomery
Gibson Custom Wes Montgomery Hollowbody Electric Guitar Vintage Sunburst | Guitar Center

L4 CES
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-...74034468647.gc


All carved top guitars. No sign of the beloved 175 and I did not see anything that looked like a 175 in the video.


I have not contacted any other dealers to see if they can order them. It's possible that only certain dealers can order them. It's also possible they are just recently taking orders for them and that information hasn't percolated through out the company.


And it's possible that the folks answering your question have no idea what kind of special orders the custom shop can fulfill.