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Hi Everyone. I am a hobbyist-guitarist who has always coveted a Gibson ES-175. I've just never found the right one at the right time.
However I think my luck may have changed. I recently found an ES-175 CC that seems to be in very good condition. A luthier I know has serviced it for years.
It is stamped "SECOND" on the back of the headstock, and its serial number indicates it's a 1979.
It was owned by a collector and seems fairly lightly played.
The luthier says the CC pickup is the original (as shipped in 1979, not an original 1930s pickup of course), and the guitar hasn't been modified.
Does anyone know what something like this is worth? I tried searching eBay for completed listings, but there aren't many CC models there. The prices fetched for regular ES-175s are all over the place, understandably.
I'd rather not say what the seller is asking for the guitar, in the event that he perhaps reads this forum. I played the guitar when I was in the luthier's shop, and while I am not an expert guitarist and didn't spend alot of time inspecting the guitar, it sounded excellent. Everything worked, and the luthier's set up and so forth made it easy to play. It even had new strings.
Any opinions regarding a reasonable offering price would be appreciated )
Thanks. 86general
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02-18-2022 11:24 AM
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Is this the one located in Nashville? If so, I was looking at the same one yesterday. I’ve had 2 CC equipped archtops and really like them. Since you’ve played it and had it inspected by someone you trust it seems good to go. If the deal is fair and you like the feel and sound I’d say go for it!
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I’ve seen them going around 4K in the last 6 months. I’ve seen several listed in the 5k range, but I haven’t seen any of those sell. A second should command a little less than a comparable one that wasn’t a second.
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reasonable in the eyes of a potential buyer has a lot to do with sound, playability and how much YOU desire it vs price. No one else besides you can be the judge of that balance. I myself am quite greedy. If I really want it, can afford it, if it fullfills a requirement I can not fullfill with present gear, can be put to a specific purpose, I can convince myself I need it.
I ask myself the question; Do I really need it?
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Very insightful. Yeah, it comes down to motivation, inspiration, and value. Value is what it means to you versus what the money you'd spend on it means to you. And we can only decide these things for ourselves.
Originally Posted by hotpepper01
Decisions like this tend to be easier when we know that the value is super high. Either it's something we feel like we *need*, as you say, or the price is so low that the money spent seems trivial.
Neither is the case here. I've done fine without an ES-175 for 57 years, so I suppose I will never need one. I don't gig anymore except rarely, and I'm not a jazz guitarist. I like playing a little jazz and love the sounds of jazz guitars, though.
The money he's asking is *just* high enough to make buying it feel like a splurge; I suppose I posted this thinking that if I found these guitars were going for much, much more than he was asking, I could justify the splurge on the logic that I was getting a "steal."
The guitar is beautiful, though, and is in very good condition, and I consider it special. The very limited run of the 175-CC makes it special and unique, even moreso now that Gibson has stopped producing ES-175s of any kind.
I think I'm gonna buy it. I found out it has the original case and the case is also pristine.
JP
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Originally Posted by 86general
Speaking for myself, I'd jump on that with both feet. I love my '04 ES-175! 
Last edited by citizenk74; 02-18-2022 at 06:30 PM.
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We only live once, let happiness be a big part of it.
all the best with the CC ES-175 for which you waited sooo long.
should be one fine guitar, happy ES-175 owner here.
no need to be a full-on Jazz guitarist to love these.
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FWIW my ‘79 175 was hands down the best sounding/playing 175 I ever had. To me)
So you got my ‘yea’ vote!
jk
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I think they’re cool guitars, but I’ve never gotten along with maple necked ES-175s, and every 175cc I’ve played has had a maple neck.
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There's a publication called the Blue Book of Guitar Values where you can find prices based on condition, age, and model. It will likely cost a couple of bucks to get a listing - it operates similarly to the blue book for cars - but if you're contemplating spending a couple of thousand dollars it's probably worth the cost.
I am not affiliated with the cited publication, but I've used it a few times.
See Blue Book of Guitar Values
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at least half of them I've seen were stamped second and most were flawless
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I honestly think that at least part of the time the only flaw is that they are stamped “second” or “2”. Was this sometimes just if they were overstocked? Anyone know? Originally Posted by wintermoon
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I heard it was because they wanted to blow them out @ lower prices and I believe the warranty was voided as a result of the 2nd stamp
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no offense to those that dig them but I've never heard one that came close to a prewar 150 or 250 even though the pickups are supposed to be made out of the same cobalt magnet materials as the originals.
they sound thinner/brighter to me. not sure why that is, just ime.
I played a beautiful blonde custom '69 Johnny Smith w/a CC pu @ Umanovs in NY back in the day that I wanted to like but again, thin/bright
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The CC pickups used on the 175CC definitely used a different gauge wire for the windings, which I believe results in a completely different tone. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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I don't have much personal experience with CC pickups, but I have read (perhaps on this forum) that CC pickups are inherently thin and bright sounding. And, the reason they sound warm and round on recordings of the past is that they were historically paired with limited bandwidth amps with octal tube preamps. Does that match anyone else's experience with these pickups and vintage amps versus modern, full bandwidth amps? Originally Posted by wintermoon
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I can say froM experience that my 1936 ES-150 sounds better through a 5F6A Fender Twin than through an octal amplifier, most recently tried through an EH-125. It’s not thin and bright, it’s full and glorious. It’s not bad through octal amps. It’s probably even better through an Ampeg Gemini V that I have. Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
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I’ve only played two Biltoft CC floaters. One was on a D’A EXL-1 that I’ve since sold and the other is on my Solid Formed. The one on the EXL-1 was clear and defined. Not as warm as a set-in humbucker but far from thin. The one on my Gibson is fat but detailed with a bit of bell-like tone in the upper register. I love em.
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They are big sounding pickup with deep lows and sparkling highs, IME. I've never personally played a real Gibson CC but even the humbucker sized ones maintain a lot of this character. Fred Archtop's videos on YT shows this off. I have a couple of Pete Biltoft HCCs that sound great, but my 114 year old house has too many wiring buzzes to use them.
And listen to Jimmy Raney's early records, or the Two Jims and a Zoot where you get to compare JR with Jim Hall (through the same amp, I think- GA-50). Jimmy's tone is just gorgeous on that recording with his ES-150. Nothing thin and bright about that sound!
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Well, like I said, minimal experience with CC pickups. I have a friend with Pete Biltoft CC pickups in his archtop guitars and he really likes them. So, I'm glad to hear other forum members' positive experiences with them. I will have to borrow one of my friend's guitars to spend some time with a CC pickup and get a better idea of their tonal range.
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If it can help, here is a demo I've done on different CC PU/Guitars. Included is my 175CC from 1980. They certainly do not sound thin to my hears.
Best.
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That is one of the best vids ever on JGF. Very nice playing, and very informative. Must have taken you a lot of editing time. Thanks very much for doing it. Originally Posted by Fred Archtop
ps - Who made the pickguards to go with the CC pickups?
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Wow Fred your sound and playing are always superb!
May I ask you what strings and amp you use?
I don't expect to approach your playing, but maybe I can just approach your sound to begin with.
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If you're ever looking for a clear demonstration of how we gearheads make a big deal out of a small distinction this is exactly that. Originally Posted by Fred Archtop
Those sound great. You sound great, Fred. And to borrow a line from a famed 70s jazz quartet, "The Song Remains The Same."
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Here we go. Recording chain: guitars, Fender Deluxe Reissue '65, Shure SM 57 placed in front of amp, DAW.All guitars are equipped with Tomastick-Infled strings (Swing 12-50, except the 175 CC which has Bebop 12-50) except the Slaman DS-250 which I equipped with Martin Monel strings. Originally Posted by Jx30510
Cheers.
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